The real Hen Harrier Action Plan

Mark January 15, 2016January 15, 2016 23 Comments

I was the first one – which one were you?

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30,000 signatures to ban driven grouse shooting.

A popular movement for banning driven grouse shooting – a whole week to go – please sign here to get government to listen and act .

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23 Replies to “The real Hen Harrier Action Plan”

Terry Pickford, North West Raptor Group says:

January 15, 2016 at 8:30 am

Just who is this Government pandering may I ask? These proposals will ensure there will be more losses like Skye and Hope on our moorlands. I also suspect a repetition of more male hen harrier disappearances here in the Forest of Bowland and elsewhere this year. The killers have already made sure 99% of breeding peregrines throughout Bowland have been destroyed, leaving as many as 17 territories totally abandoned. The individuals responsible will not stop now and why should they; they know their illegal activities are unstoppable.
John Miles says:

January 15, 2016 at 8:56 am

Not unstoppable but just working with this government. Like fracking, like flooding, like Europe this government will not listen. If Mark wants another pole may be he should try how many of his readers voted for this trash!
Interesting to note that £50 million was given to Whitehaven Hospital only because the government suspected a RIOT in the streets if they allowed the hospital to fall last week! Not one newspaper covered the story after a 6 hour closed door [Locked] meeting. I know Mark’s followers would never riot, nor RSPB, Or WWT or any other environmental group but that’s what the government think as well!
1. Northern Diver says:
  
  January 15, 2016 at 11:37 am
  
  I’ll riot. Just tell me where & when.
Chrissie Harper says:

January 15, 2016 at 9:44 am

I totally agree Terry, this plan is a waste of money and doomed to failure, we all know that.
I would like to ask the RSPB what they have done with the money they received for The Hen Harrier Project?
Isn’t it about time all involved in this, so called brood management farce, listened to people who really know about these iconic birds and take better advice?
As long as the shooting fraternity keep getting away with raptor persecution to line their pockets raptor persecution will never end, I am sure there are raptors buried all over the grouse moors never to be found, and if they do get caught the punishment is a joke.
Michael May says:

January 15, 2016 at 9:45 am

Sad to say it, but I agree with you Tom. The only way to stop it is to jail or fine the culprits so heavily that they hurt.
Chris Green says:

January 15, 2016 at 9:59 am

We are fairly close to the start Mark, however, congratulations, that is a brilliant achievement.
Sue & Chris Green
giles says:

January 15, 2016 at 10:52 am

No doubt whatsoever that the possibility of people co operating to increase HH and reduce wildlife crime could damage this campaign and therefore we will see Mark vehemently opposing it.
1. Jonathan Wallace says:
  
  January 15, 2016 at 3:36 pm
  
  Is that a fair comment Giles? It is hard to see what the plan brings that will change things for the better for Hen Harriers. What do you see that does?
  The Hen Harrier only needs one thing in order for its numbers to increase and that is for gamekeepers to stop illegally killing it. Brood management is not a measure that will help Hen Harriers – they are quite capable of rearing their own broods. If it goes ahead it is merely a concession to the people currently killing Hen Harriers in order to persuade them to stop doing so. I don’t believe the government would offer a concession to the perpetrators of any other type of crime in order to get them to stop, do you?
  What concession is the grouse shooting fraternity making? We are told over and over that the persecution is perpetrated by a few bad apples and that the shooting industry as a whole finds it abhorrent so will it actually be in the gift of the MA, CA, GWCT, BASC et al to stop the persecution or will it carry on just as before with birds still mysteriously disappearing from the moors at the hands of these anonymous, out-of-control bad apples? Inclusion of vicarious liability and/or licensing would at least have provided some means of holding the shooting industry to its side of the bargain but it is not in the plan.
  There seems to be very little to cheer about in the plan and precious little evidence of the cooperation you allude to.
  1. giles says:
    
    January 15, 2016 at 5:19 pm
    
    Of course it’s fair comment IF harrier numbers start to recover that would quite obviously be bad news for the campaign. That’s why any constructive progress – for example better enforcement and better regulations – would be bad for getting DGS banned.
    
    As for government offering concessions to criminals I am sorry but what nonsense! You seem to forget DGS is not a criminal offence. Talk about putting the cart before the horse!
    
    Of course we all know that Mark likes to target groups of people labelling them wholesale as criminals. But that’s because at bottom – he’s a fascist.
    1. Mark says:
      
      January 15, 2016 at 5:25 pm
      
      giles – I’d rather you didn’t call me a fascist please.
    2. Jonathan Wallace says:
      
      January 15, 2016 at 6:24 pm
      
      “As for government offering concessions to criminals I am sorry but what nonsense!”
      Explain to me please Giles what else brood management is but a concession to criminals. I am well aware that DGS is not a criminal activity but killing Hen Harriers is. Brood management is being put forward as a measure to help Hen Harriers recover and it only conceivably does that if it is accepted by those killing Hen Harriers as a reason to stop doing so i.e. they think they are getting something worth stopping for. That is a concession to criminals in my book. So I haven’t forgotten anything – you are twisting the argument by suggesting that DGS is not a criminal offence when no-one has said it is. Talk about putting the cart in a completely different paddock to the horses!
      1. giles says:
        
        January 16, 2016 at 10:58 am
        
        Let me give you a of couple examples from other walks of life. The Government builds a centre for afro Caribbean studies – ah but there are Afro Caribbean drug dealers – that’s a concession to criminals! A local authprity gives permission for a mosque – ah a ‘concession to terrorists’
        
        what’s wrong with both those statements?
        
        What I want is more Hen Harriers and a better upland environment.
        
        So yes I am interested in finding ways to encourage criminals to stop committing crimes people stop committing crimes at least partly because of self interest. From what I understand they are going to trial brood management it may or nay not help – I have no idea.
        
        I’d like to see Hen Harriers on Exmoor – I spoke to one DGS ban campaigner and he said such nan idea was ‘wrong headed’.
        
        I also discussed swaling on Exmoor – this isn’t related to DGS I was told that is a ‘diversionary issue’. really?
        
        I’ve suggested implementing massive vicarious Civil liability for businesses whose employees kill protected species – Mark’s against that because he doesn’t get to label people as criminals where there is no proof they have personally committed a crime.
        
        This campaign is about divisively labelling people that you hate. People that are perceived as ‘different’.
        
        Any attempt to constructively resolve the issue through dialogue and compromise is a threat to the campaign to ban DGS. It really is that simple.
        
        If Hen Harriers did start to recover – Mark would be heartbroken because it would reduce the possibility of getting his law implemented and his Axe ground.
        
        Effective and enforced regulations on moor bu8rning would also be a hammer blow to this campaign as would more effective and enforced measures to prevent and discourage killing protected species.
      2. giles says:
        
        January 16, 2016 at 11:00 am
        
        suggest you look at the likes and dislikes on the post below about Hen Harriers on Exmoor – why would people on here dislike that possibility?
      3. Jonathan Wallace says:
        
        January 16, 2016 at 10:06 pm
        
        Giles, your two examples are not remotely comparable as you must surely realise (I have read many of your posts here and I know that you are not stupid). There are people who do not wish there to be Hen Harriers on grouse moors so, away from prying eyes, they bump them off whenever they can. In order to stop this happening (that is what the action plan is essentially trying to achieve – no-one believes Hen Harrier numbers are so low for any reason other than all this illegal bumping off) it is proposed to…remove Hen Harriers from the grouse moors. A better comparison with this would be if bank robbers were given a load of the bank’s money in order to persuade them to stop their bank robbing ways. I am fully aware that not everyone involved in the grouse shooting industry is involved in criminal persecution of Hen Harriers but, let’s be clear, the plan is required to put a stop to the ones who really are.
    3. Les Wallace says:
      
      January 15, 2016 at 8:46 pm
      
      Giles if you want to call anyone fascist I suggest you take a peek at the Facebook pages of various shooting enthusiasts, some of them prominent detractors of Mark and his campaigning work. Refugees to be used for target practice on the rifle range, volunteers helping injured wildlife referred to as f***wits, no foreign aid, rampant islamophobia, the townies a degenerate branch of humanity compared to ‘real’ country people (the ones that kill for fun as it happens). And of course the presumption that the general population should endure the flooding of their homes or a red deer coming through their windscreen so that the privileged can have plenty of game to shoot at. These I think are indicative of a fascist mentality, not in anyway those who are fighting as best they can against the wreckers of the land, wildlife and all too often communities. In any case I’m sure that you would never call someone a fascist over the internet without being prepared to tell them it to their face Giles would you? Please reflect a little and I’m sure you’ll realise you owe Mark an apology.
      1. giles says:
        
        January 16, 2016 at 10:59 am
        
        Les if I want to find an example of a fascist all I need to look for is someone that seeks to single out groups of people.
        
        Just like you.
Philip Collins says:

January 15, 2016 at 11:07 am

I wonder if the success of your campaign has triggered the long-awaited launch of the non-action plan. I can only imagine the rows going on behind the scenes. One of which I would hope would be the RSPB threatening to support the ban unless the plan was launched.
Steven Rowlands says:

January 15, 2016 at 11:29 am

And to think the RSPB are being paid to protect HenHarriers?
S Rowlands
giles says:

January 15, 2016 at 1:09 pm

I was interested in the possibility of getting more Hen Harriers in the south – especially the SW and was wondering how this could be achieved.

If grouse moor management can benefit Hen Harriers (as long as it doesn’t include killing them obviously) then maybe managing parts of Exmoor and Dartmoor for grouse would also increase HH numbers.
1. Mark says:
  
  January 15, 2016 at 1:16 pm
  
  giles – as you probably know, Hen Harriers don’t need Red Grouse in their diet. Those wintering on our coasts would struggle if they did.
  
  The thing that would increase Hen Harrier numbers is that people stop killing them. The people who are killing them are associated with some grouse moors.
  1. giles says:
    
    January 15, 2016 at 1:26 pm
    
    Thanks for that Mark. It’s not just red grouse though is it? There’s also predator control. I’m not suggesting people start driven grouse shooting on Exmoor – merely wondering on whether any changes on Exmoor might benefit HHs and other Birds of Prey.
    
    As far as I am aware people aren’t killing Hen Harriers down here – although I could be wrong.
    
    On another issue – what’s your view about what Monbiot is saying about swaling on SW moors. Obviously banning DGS would make no difference to that.
    
    Do you think there should be tougher and more effective regulation of swaling / moor burn?
    
    Also as far as illegal BoP killing in the SW is concerned (and it does happen) – would you support tougher more effective regulations on that too?
  2. giles says:
    
    January 15, 2016 at 1:37 pm
    
    Apologies for multiple replies – just reading this http://www.exmoor-nationalpark.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/128902/birds.pdf
    
    “The fortunes of moorland birds are largely dependent on the way the moors are managed. The traditional combination of grazing and burning is key to maintaining the intricate mix of habitats. ”
    
    I’m assuming we all agree at least with the first sentence?
    
    The report also says “Upland heath also has the potential to support new breeding species. Hen harriers have been
    recorded summering in areas of mature heather and are a potential breeding species. ”
    
    Sounds like an exciting possibility!
    
    and also “The restoration of large areas of habitat may provide opportunities for species which no longer occur on the moor, eg black grouse”
    
    IMO what probably has the biggest negative impact on habitat quality on Exmoor is improved grassland Ryegrass is maybe the most prevalent invasive species. Silage production is especially bad IMO.
    
    Would be great to hear your views.
Philip Latham says:

February 26, 2016 at 6:23 pm

Getting change to upland management is going to a long time. Lobbying Government is part of this process as well as informing public opinion. The catastrophic floods in Cumbria and Northumberland this winter are clear evidence that the Pennine uplands are not helping to hold back excessive rainfall. For those doubtful about the EU membership should remember that it is right wing neo liberals who believe in their inalienable right to shoot any thing on their land. Coming out of Europe will embolden them to break laws which they see as restricting their freedom.

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