Chapter 11 of Fighting for Birds gives a fuller account of what was said and written about whatever happened that evening.
My remaining view is that I believe that someone shot two hen harriers five years ago but I really don’t know who that was.
I often think of the ‘Sandringham harrier affair’ – whenever I drive through that part of Norfolk, whenever I see a hen harrier and sometimes it just pops into my head. But I was reminded of it in the ‘police are plebs’ affair a few weeks ago. Basically we are expected to believe the Chief Whip when he doesn’t quite say that he didn’t say what he was said to have said because – why, because he’s an ‘important’ man. As was said in that case, it slightly beggars belief that the policemen involved would be standing around Downing Street thinking up ways to try to get a government whip into trouble. Maybe they misheard – but maybe they didn’t.
And similarly, it beggars belief that a Natural England employee, and, as I understand it, other witnesses, would make up a story of two hen harriers being gunned down. Why, just for one thing, decide that two birds rather than one was shot?
As far as I’m concerned, the Sandringham harrier affair remains a ‘whodunnit?’ not a ‘didn’t do it’ – but I might be wrong.
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The Sandringham incident was a curious tale. I remember watching a programme about it. However it wasn’t the only case involving Sandringham… [This comment has been quite heavily edited]
Douglas – you are right but I have edited out most of your comment to protect the innocent, the guilty and you, and me. Thanks though!
My book has quite a lot of the story in it.
This reminded me, I think much of the hen harrier tracking data that Defra will not share with you was presented a year or so ago at the north of England raptor forum meeting – surely this makes it already in the public domain?
It seems that at least one of the young Cumbrian birds is missing with an adult gone away as well which could mean that the total in England next year will be zero.
What wouldn’t I give for a satellite tracker transmitting GPS and bio-telemetry from every English Hen Harrier. Along with a quiet UAV and its hi-res camera on station ready to “look in to” any sudden apparent heart stoppages.
Well I can dream can’t I……….?
“What wouldn’t I give for a satellite tracker transmitting GPS …”
Mrs Cobb found a website which displayed the track of every civil flight in the air over Europe in real time (volcano, sister, visit, casserole).
If that is possible, then surely something similar is feasible for tracking transmitters attached to birds – Wikibeaks? No place to hide data once it is out there …
This is very naughty, Mark. For one thing, it has got absolutely nothing to do with the pleb/patrician issue which you have been so eagerly promoting on your political blog. As you well know, there was no prosecution in relation to the Sandringham incident because the CPS deemed there was insufficient evidence: it wasn’t because they didn’t believe the Natural England warden had given an honest account of what he thought he’d seen. As far as I’m aware, no one has ever suggested that he’d made up his story; simply that it was a case of mistaken identity. For what you fail to say, and you also omit it from your account in ‘Fighting for Birds’, is that the sighting of the incident took place as it was getting dark shortly before 6pm, and that the warden and his guests were 500 yards away.
And despite a thorough police search of the area round the pond where duck flighting had been taking place, no forensic evidence of dead harriers was found.
In the circumstances, even your then colleague Martin Thomas who led the RSPB investigation and attended the scene acknowledged on his own blog that he was not surprised by the CPS’ decision.
You remark on the unlikelihood of someone making up a story of TWO hen harriers being shot. I view it another way. Martin Thomas recorded how, when he spoke to the Natural England warden on his mobile phone about 20 minutes after the incident, he “could could hear the blast of shotguns in the background and I was informed that the shooting was continuing, presumably legal wildfowling”.
How likely is it really that after brazenly gunning down a right and left of harriers so close to a National Nature Reserve, the offender would nonchalantly carry on shooting?
Incidentally, I had got the impression that the RSPB was rather keen to move on from this wretched saga. I wonder how happy your erstwhile colleagues will be that you keep reviving it. Not to mention those associated with the Sandringham estate who have consistently denied the allegations.
For what it’s worth, though, I agree with you about the Mitchell affair.
Lazywell – I do wish you commented here even more often. I do love your comments, though, of course, you are the naughty one!
In fact, you almost made it into Chapter 14 of Fighting for Birds through the story of you being reprimanded in a bar late one night in Co Durham – your reprimander reprimanded me for not including it.
If you read my rather childish blog on the Corby and East Northants 2012 by-election, as you clearly do, then you are almost alone!
You are right that the CPS deemed there was insufficient evidence (as did we all) but you are wrong that no-one ever suggested, in a rather patrician way, that the ‘Incident at Dersingham Bog’ was a fiction – some certainly did. I have been told, apparently with complete confidence by the various ‘tellers’ that ‘Person A’ did it, ‘Person B’ did it, that ‘a Person or Persons unknown’ did it as well as being told that no-one did it because it was a) a mistake by the witnesses or b) a made-up nonsense.
My ex-colleage is Mark Thomas.
I hardly keep revving it up – as you put it. As far as I can make out, I did try to check, I made no mention of the Sandringham affair in my RSPB blog and have made no mention of it in this blog until this, the 5-year anniversary. I plan to mention it again on the 10th anniversary. And I did write about it in Fighting for Birds’s Chapter 11 (Chris Packham’s favourite chapter he tells me). That discussion, much of which was made of lengthy quotes from the time, occupied some of 8 of the book’s 324 pages. You, on the other hand, did rev it up in London once…
But you have given me an idea – a naughty one perhaps, but it’s your fault! If the ex-warden of NE involved in this matter would like to put his (or her) side of the story in a Guest Blog then that would be very welcome too. I wouldn’t have thought of that without your comment, Lazywell. Thank you again.
I’m not sure about this but I think the incident must have happened a little earlier than you say. I might be wrong but the most likely train for me to be on would have been the 515pm from Sandy Station which arrives in London around 6pm (although it was usually a little late). And so I think I probably got the call between 530pm and 545pm. which means that the incident (if it happened – which I think it did) must have been some time before that. Maybe 5pm-515pm. But I cannot swear to which train I was on so you may well be right. But as I write this lengthy comment to you, it is now 530pm 5 years later and I can certainly see well enough down the road where I live to see a couple of hen harriers in the distance. I’ll just go and have a look now….
Lazywell – I did have to turn the lights on at about 540pm. It seems quite gloomy inside but outside – despite the gloomy overcast evening – it is still light enough to spot hen harriers going to roost very easily. At 530pm some cars didn’t have their headlights on here, they should have done I think, but their drivers obviously didn’t think it was gloomy let alone dark. Just popping out for another look.
Lazywell – just another update. It is just past 6pm and I’m closing the curtains and need the lights on anyway inside but having stood outside in the street for the last 10 minutes I would have no problem at all spotting and identifying a hen harrier a few hundred yards away with my bare eyes. Binoculars would help if they were very distant but today, five years on, slightly further west and south here in east Northants (so maybe a couple of minutes further away from darkness) I could easily see and identify hen harriers at this time of the evening.
I didn’t see any though, but I’m not claiming they were shot round the corner. I was hoping a redwing would fly over calling but it’s maybe not really dark enough for them to be moving.
I was rewarded by a tantalising smell of bacon in the street.
I’ll just pop out again as I know you find this riveting.
Lazywell – last one. At 610pm it is rather dark now. I reckon I could see hen harriers at the end of the street but I’d need a decent view and it would probably help if they were silhouetted against the sky. But a decently long view with binoculars would still be perfectly feasible. It would depend on the precise conditions and the length of the view. But ‘around 6pm, doesn’t raise any alarm bells with me.
Still no redwings and still a smell of bacon.
PS meant to say – I’m glad we agree on Mitchell.
Lazywell – I have just spoken to the ex-colleague who phoned me and his recollection accords with mine. He believes he got the call and then phoned me at about 545pm and that the deed was done (or not done) around 515-530pm. So not a problem at all with the light then. I needn’t have spent that time in the street after all – the smell of bacon was nice though.
How quickly did the police or other investigators get on scene after the incident to look for any evidence?
Lazywell – thanks for your comment which I will reply to around dusk. I thought you’d like me to mark the moment in that way.
The question, of course, is what deed was done. And in that regard there was a straight conflict of oral evidence, and an absence of forensic evidence. And no prosecution and no conviction.
I said that you kept ‘reviving’ the matter, not ‘revving it up’, though it probably comes to the same thing. Since, as I say, I understood that the RSPB had sought to draw a line under the matter, it does strike me as pretty bold to have revisited it in your book, although a good part of it, I acknowledge, was a transcript of Mark Thomas’s emotive account (apologies for getting his name wrong – Martin Thomas is a patrician neighbour of mine in Scotland). You say you haven’t mentioned it in this blog, but what about that gratuitous swipe in the entry entitled ‘Saturday 5’ on 1st September?
Yes, I did raise the matter at the 2008 AGM. You will recall that I was concerned that the incident had been formally categorised as a ‘confirmed’ incident of wildlife crime; not ‘reported’, or ‘alleged’, or ‘suspected’, any of which would have been more accurate. In the absence of any other evidence besides this eyewitness account, and without any judicial determination, I wondered how the RSPB felt so confident as to describe it as a ‘confirmed incident’. “Confirmed by whom,” I asked, “and according to what standard of proof?” And a pretty lame reply I received from the then Chief Executive, as I recall, to the effect that he “believed” the warden’s account.
I found this unsettling, as the RSPB was effectively acting as investigator, prosecutor, judge and jury. Furthermore, if the status given to this particular incident was questionable, that could cast doubt on the reliability of all the RSPB’s records of incidents of wildlife crime. As the latest Birdcrime report has only recently come out, this remains a matter of topical importance.
Mark, I’m flattered of course that you enjoy my comments on your blog, and your own responses are characteristically engaging. But these were very serious allegations, and by presenting the matter in the way that you do, on the basis of limited evidence, you are effectively continuing to impugn the integrity of many people, by no means all of patrician, or even more senior, standing. I wonder if that is sensible or fair.
Lazywell – well I wouldn’t count the mention on Saturday 5 as a swipe of any sort.
I impuned no-one. And nemo impune me lacessit.
But you are a lovely chap, Lazywell. Might you be at an event in London next week on Thursday evening where we might clink glasses?
I hope Mark you don’t mind jumping in here in reference to Lazywell comment. The bit I would like to chip in with is mostly the fourth paragraph and the questioning of the RSPB’s stats.
I can actually say one of those stats in the report you refer to comes from me. It evolved the theft of the Little Owl chicks from a nest site. Now after Mark passed the details on and I was contacted by the RSPB. The report was taken and I had to give an O.S. map reference, time, details of what I saw, NOT WHAT I THOUGHT MIGHT have happened, I was asked to keep it STRICTLY factual and not use conjecture, very proffesionally handled. So if all of the other reports were handled in that manner then I can be confident in the RSPB’s stats, and no I’m not an RSPB member.
Also seems daft to accuse the warden of either exagerating or not actually seeing anything (without the proof you are also asking for) just because no body was found. You think someone facing such a penalty for this crime would leave any evidence laying around? Most wardens I’ve met are pretty good at using their eyes (kind of part of the job description really!), are very cautious indviduals, and would rather work with other landowners surronding their nature reserves rather the cause “friction”.
Lazywell, when the CPS and the police announced that no prosecution would take place due to a lack of evidence they both as I recall stated that they had no doubt that the crime as described by the witnesses had taken place. And despite the widespread claim in the shooting press ( usually about as truthful and objective as any other gutter press publication) made by CA and NGo spokes persons I think we should accept that a crime was confirmed although no suspect was convicted. This sadly is true of most anti raptor crime, especially against harriers, widespread and routine though it be.
The power of social media, to some extent, but also the science and economics, has demonstrated the effectiveness of public campaigning on a single issue, i.e. the now culled badger cull.
It is a shame, an immense shame, that the e-petition on vicarious liability has failed to attract a similar support – perhaps Dr Brian May needs to be made aware of it, if not already. But perhaps it would be best to wait until this e-petition has elapsed, and submit a new one, re-worded. I suspect the use of vicarious liability is, ironically, a liability as uninformed or poorly informed individuals might not realise the intention of its meaning.
Richard,somewhat ironic that Badger petition gets so many signatures seeing as there are varying estimates of their numbers but all seem to think at least 300,000 resident in England.Hen Harrier much scarcer and more persecuted gets very small number of signatures.Think everyone understands V L but not many H H lovers.Think that although I like Badgers they could become a big problem in the future as they are increasing in numbers quite dramatically and have no enemies except vehicles.
Mark quite funny reply to Lazywell,oh yes there were two H H shot just not enough evidence.
Policeman convicted of egg thieving now,whatever next seems he did lots of it while on duty,still getting his pension.
Dennis – thanks! I saw that case about the egg-collecting policeman. What would the ex Government Chief Whip say?
Dennis, I think he might quite rightly describe him as a pleb and no-one would object.
Mark, I might clink glasses with you on that Thursday night even if Lazywell can’t
Bob – I’ll look forward to seeing you there.
I remember well the meeting we were ‘summoned’ to and still smile at the WTE suggestion, interesting life experience eh!
Richard – yes, me too! ’nuff said.
What did or did not take place at Sandringham is now water under a very dark bridge, and no matter what anyone does the truth will never be revealed because there is no tangible proof. What is true, 99.99% of all hen harrier reared in England during the last 20 years on moorland whether in Lancashire, Yorkshire, Northumberland, Durham or Cumbria must now be regarded as dead. In the wild environment a healthy hen harrier could expect to live between 15 – 20 years but clearly hen harriers throughout England are being prevented from living a normal life because of persecution, otherwise our uplands would be well populated with breeding birds. We are all concerned when even a single hen harrier is reported killed, but over all during the last two decades I would reasonably expect that several hundred, not just two, hen harriers have lost their lives on Red Grouse moorlands in northern England.
Turning to the future can you confirm that Hen Harriers breed on Balmoral along with Golden Eagle, Peregrine Falcon and Goshawk. The near by Natural Trust reserve at Mar Lodge claim there are no Hen Harriers breeding there due to persecution else where. If no birds nest on the Royal estate which is bigger enough for at least 10 pairs who is to blame?
John – I don’t know. I’d be interested to know too.
Mark – thanks for marking this anniversary. I don’t know how but I wasn’t aware of this when it happened. It’s a horrible tale whichever way you look at it and reading it I felt a little of the sickness in the stomach you and your former colleague must have felt.
On a slightly lighter note I also came across a very good Steve Bell cartoon done around that time on the Guardian website; some readers who did not see it then may enjoy it now. I won’t post the link here but there are links to it from the Grauniad’s coverage.