Four questions on extinction

26 Replies to “Four questions on extinction”

1. The spider as the whale is so contaminated with our waste that the species has stopped breeding!

2. Hmm. This may be down to English not being my native language, and my poor wordplay skills in general, but is there a hidden test here too, underneath the visible? If I choose nothing, is it me choosing nothing to save or nothing to leave for the train to wreck? I don’t know which option to take as I don’t know what the option indicates. Or is this part of the fun? Confusion reigns 🙂

   1. Minna, if you put your tick in the ‘nothing’ box then you are indicating that you would rather save nothing at all than save a spider or a small pox virus. I would hope that not many people would choose to send the spider to oblivion when faced with such a choice but I guess there are some people who really don’t like spiders!

      1. Thank you, dared to do my voting now.

3. An interesting exercise and worth thinking about. I am not going to give away my choices at this stage but I will try to explain when a few people have had a chance to look at the poll.

4. Much too tricky for my brain cell. I’m still trying to work out how queuing outside an Apple store is mutually exclusive with concern for the environment? Doug, Douglas ?

5. Phil,
   My comment about the “apple” store and people qeuing over night for a computer game was in response that you thought the younger genreation will/was/would take up the mantle of saving or being part of conservation and not BE like some elders obsessed with over consumption, I was merely pointing out, in particular the lines of youngsters waiting for the release of a computer game, that it was a perfect example that of how younger people are just obsessed with consumption as elder people.
   Sure some youngsters are out there, keen to get involved with nature etc, but if it’s only a small percentage then what change will happen. As I drove home in a taxi past a computer store with circa 150 people of which I would estimate most were in the age group of 18-25 I had to wonder if they would do the same for an enviromental cause, the apple store example was another fine example loads of people of a mixed age group queing for a product that wasn’t much different to the product they already own and will be replaced, probably in 6 months time…it was my poorly put across example how over-consumption effects all age groups.

   1. “poorly put across example”

      Nah – less is more

   2. Douglas, many thanks – at least your prepared to have a chat about a very important subject unlike Doug and his:

      “Phil.
      I don’t share your pessimism I’m afraid.
      Doug.”

      followed by

      ““but they [the younger generations] do seem to be doing quite well without me”
      I’m not surprised…”

      Banal platitude followed by insult.

      What exactly is this blog for (he asks knowing full well!) if not to debate how we launch a sustained practical approach to standing up for nature without necessarily having to invest in expensive books.

      My original thought was that the “fiddlers” who had failed to avert the grim reading that is the “State of Nature” report were about as useless as the “jokers” who think the situation is funny. Doug did at least concur with that, albeit with a one word answer.

      I have first hand experience of a bunch of ‘fiddlers’ who are good at producing books but have their head firmly in the sand in the sand when it comes to following up on their messages with action! but I was mightily impressed by the passion shown by the then 17 year old Brittany Trilford at Rio+20 and the young people she can be seen to have inspired.

      As for the youngsters outside the Apple Store, they have been bombarded with approach 1 million marketing messages in their short lives. The Green Party is advocating a complete ban on the practice, so no doubt you’ll be voting for them in the next general election?

      Doug, on what do you base your optimism for the future??

      1. Phil, I’m yet to decide whom to vote for at the next general election as I’m yet to see any real policies. Every day I’m finding less reasons to vote for Labour other then tactical reasons. As for greens I don’t think one has stood in my ward and probably won’t either, unless Mark fancies a challenge!?

         1. Mark, you have the skills and presence to make a stand – you up for it?

            Seems to me only those clever people (which excludes me obviously) who are truly determined to make a stand for nature without being hamstrung by royal charters, charity status or the onerous task of having to make a living are going to make the difference!

            Those that are so hamstrung are not getting any more of my previously hard earned until evidence emerges that things are turning around or the gloves are coming off.

            It was good to see Caroline Lucas on the Andrew Marr program this past Sunday – she spelt out some of the Green party policy quite well in the short time the Beeb allowed her (Have they given up with Natalie Bennett btw?). She also co-authored “Green Alternatives to Globalisation – A Manifesto” many years ago which I did read and now wonder why the ideas have yet to be taken up in the light of ongoing vicious wars around the world, financial hardship evrywhere you look (excepting Monaco of course) and eco-degradation, all arguably caused by the common denominator that is “globalisation” and the “race to the bottom” otherwise known as “free trade”.

            Anybody got any views?

      2. Good morning Phil.

         For what its worth:

         “I’m still trying to work out how queuing outside an Apple store is mutually exclusive with concern for the environment? Doug, Douglas ?” [YOU]

         I couldn’t understand why you wanted me to comment on something I clearly didn’t know anything about originally…. I didn’t mention apple on my original comment (only to query whether or not I’d missed something important from Filbert or Douglas).
         Remember?
         “And as for the apple stores that Filbert and Douglas mention…. I guess I’ve missed something. Has something important happened? I haven’t watched the news all week so I guess I’ve missed the big story?” [Me]

         You struck me as somewhat confused as to who you should be addressing – so I didn’t answer your comment above and left it to one of the people who did mention Apple – and Douglas kindly replied.

         __________________________________________________________________

         “Phil.
         I don’t share your pessimism I’m afraid.
         Doug.”

         I happened to disagree with your pessimism (or what I took as pessimism by your “So there we have it, a bunch of jokers and fiddlers lined up against “the crushing weight of established orthodoxies on all things environmental” – in other words we’re doomed!” sentence – was that a joke?).
         You then responded to tell me that you weren’t pessimistic…. and then proceeded to state that actually if you were pessimistic, it would be “with my generation” [YOU].
         I was genuinely interested to know whether you might be (you don’t seem sure) pessimistic about my generation or my father’s (why the coyness?)
         My interest has waned now, but if I had to, I’d probably guess my father’s.

         ___________________________________________________________________

         “but they [the younger generations] do seem to be doing quite well without me”
         I’m not surprised…” [ME]

         I’ve re-read the original line of comments and aside from the fact that your quote above does reek (more and more actually) of an inflated sense of self-worth, my point was made much more as a proud nod towards the younger generations to be fair, as well as people charged with inspiring them. Employed to inspire them in many cases.

         I’m not sure why you wouldn’t think that the younger generations would be doing “quite well” without you. Do they need you?

         I am not particularly “optimistic” (I didn’t once write I was) but I would presume I am more “optimistic” than you with regards to all this.

         So.
         Why don’t I share your attitude?
         Why am I “not surprised” that the younger generation(s) are doing “quite well” without you?
         Read on if you want.

         My wife is a biology teacher at a local secondary school and as such I get to mix with her fellow (selfless in most cases) biology teachers and others in that sphere. I also get to hear about all the good positive, proactive, enthusiastic stuff happening in biology classes around the county. I happen to think that “the kids are alright” in the main and will probably do just fine without you. (Or me for that matter). They have some great teachers who under great pressure still ignite flames of passion for the environment in many many school kids. Well… that’s what I see anyway.
         I know there is a current train of thought suggesting that all kids are obese things, pallid and shackled to their ninento wii-cube-Xstations (or whatever). That may be the case… but if so, I’ve missed it I guess.

         Of course Phil, you might be a (n ex) biology teacher (of sorts) and inspiring kids like my wife and many others.
         Now. If that is the case, then of course, I apologise profusely
         But you seem to very often belittle the “clever people” and “scientists” in your comments on this blog (and others), so in all honesty I doubt you are employed to inspire people in the field of education. I might be wrong I guess.

         The other reason I might be more “optimistic” than you (your word not mine) regarding all this is that as an active member of my local wildlife trust, I see hundreds of extremely well-populated events each year set up for kids. It really is wonderful to see and I’m sure will result in a boom in interest in the environment in future generations. These events didn’t exist when I was that age.

         Finally.
         You also said:
         “I believe the younger generations will sort it out.”
         You can see from all the above that I agree completely with that (your) notion (there’s a turn up for the books).
         I just think that says more about the younger generation(s) than it does about you Phil.
         Or for that matter, me (but then again I didn’t profess that I was “writing to them through this blog” nor did I write your “they’re doing quite well without me” line.

         1. “an inflated sense of self-worth”

            … nails it. No-one is obliged to respond to a blog comment – no service level agreement exists.

         2. Afternoon Doug, well first of all many thanks for giving me something more than a one word/one line response which can lead to much confusion/misinterpretation.

            In response:

            1) Filbert’s jibe about your “inflated sense of self worth” attack is typical of what I find myself up against. My sense of self worth is very low actually and if I am cynical about “clever” people it’s because they often treat ordinary, unintelligent guys like me with disdain. I have in the past stated that my ignorance appals me and I look to you clever guys to educate.

            2) My pessimism is with MY (1st person?) generation – which may also be yours, how would I know? It is based on my first hand experience of trying to influence intelligent people who on the one hand are telling me there are serious problems out there in the environment that ultimately threaten out survival as a species but who on the other hand then steadfastly refuse to get involved with campaigning to raise the issues to the top of the political agenda. I was gagged from expressing these views on their website, newletters and email lists and so use this and other blogs to have my say (I know some of them are reading this stuff).

            3) My pessimism also extends to the established environmental NGOs who seem quite keen to take my money but will not help me as an individual when I ask for their help in fighting for Turtle Doves in Morrocco or protecting Hen Harriers in England (for example). I’m not alone in this regard with one determined individual elsewhere extracting admissions from a staffer that charity status, lottery funding and royal charters are of at least equal concern to the organisation(s) as the immediate requirement to turn around the evidence of their “State of Nature” report. I just think to myself, simple soul that I am, that these considerations would fly out of the window if the issues are as serious as they constantly state they are (hence the Titanic metaphor).

            4) I have to believe in the younger generations because MY generation is the one that took consumption to the limits and beyond of what is sustainable and seem to me to be no closer to acknowledging what they have done. One million youngster unemployed through no fault of their own leads me to question the actual intelligence of the clever people. John Fowles in the late sixties was calling for a “New Education” that if implemented would have had us in a much better situation than we’re now in. Could you or anybody else educate me as to how we finally get these messages across and central to the debate at the next election?

            1. See what you’ve done Filbert – no SLA no replies: One last go (thank the G you say).

               Thinking about quizzes and rereading the above could I simplify futher? Could anybody answer the following four simple questions?

               1) When Sir David Attenborough stated at the end of his Africa series that “50% of the Congo rain forest is earmarked for logging” and similar alarming statements across a range of environmental issues down the years, was he telling me the truth?

               2) Similarly when film maker Yann Arthus-Bertrand stated back in 2009 “Scientists tell us that we have 10 years to change the way we live, avert the depletion of natural resources and the catastrophic evolution of the Earth’s climate. The stakes are high for us and our children. Everyone should take part in the effort” was his an informed opinion?

               3) If the answer is yes to either or both of the first two questions, shouldn’t the people who have been taking my money for 40 odd years we be showing a tad more urgency in their response and upping their game rather than continually losing the debate to the likes of Lord Lawson or James Delingpole as suggested by Caroline Lucas at the weekend?

               4) If the answer to the first two questions is no, shouldn’t us ordinary people simply save ourselves a shed load of dosh and brain cells and carry on over-consuming Business As Usual?

6. ….ps Mark have you been bitten by a Parachute spider or something, it just seems like you’re keen for it to be splatted by a train 🙂

   1. Douglas.
      Just seen your photo of the little ringed plover chasing the mallard.
      Brilliant!

7. I suspect the smallpox virus is almost extinct.

8. Cannot wait to see the meaning of this,sure to be some strange meaning to it all.

9. Does anyone have an irrational fear of Blue Whales?

   1. None, unless I was engaged in a team of four skin divers sent down to circumcise one!

      That was a joke Doug!!

10. Best plan: Do nothing. Mankind has an unenviable record of interference in the natural order of things. Let it be. Que sera sera. And any other cliches you can think of. I won’t be voting.

    1. Peter, if I didn’t have a young son to consider I’d agree wholeheartedly. However, I do think my enquiry into the clever people is complete. Conclusion, they’re clever but not intelligent, they can get just enough ordinary people to part with their cash and sustain a good living but not engage when the ordinary people take up their challenge to get involved and start asking some fundemental questions. That would take intelligence. As it is there appears to be no hope. Que sera !

11. Very interesting. With the smallpox virus, are we saving that the smallpox is in a vial? I would answer yes to that, but no to saving a human virus which is still infecting people.

12. I suspect there is a clever, reasoned posting coming up – but on first glance I thought Mark had completely lost his marbles!

    FWIW, I saved the spider every time. I’m not familiar with this particular species, but spiders seem to upset the ladies and give me cause to be a hero every now and then – via removal and release, of course.

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