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I may write a blog or two about the conference because it was so interesting.
Hen Harriers were mentioned a few times even before my talk, the last of the Conference, which certainly mentioned them.
BASC members will be pleased to hear that their Chief Executive, Richard Ali, absolutely condemned illegal killing of birds of prey including Hen Harriers. that’s good to hear.
I asked Richard how many Hen Harriers BASC would like to see in the English uplands given that scientific estimates suggest that there could be over 250 and yet there were only 2 pairs last year. His answer was 250 pairs. That’s nice to hear, and BASC is welcome to a Guest Blog here to explain their plan to produce those 250 pairs.
Mr Ali also said that 47,000 people participate in shooting Red Grouse each year. That’s quite a lot – it would get Old Trafford about two thirds full. Imagine Old Trafford full of grouse shooters – and all with their shotguns. That only leaves about 59,951,000 of us who don’t participate in grouse shooting then.
Someone else said during the conference, I can’t remember who but I wrote it down, that there are 147 grouse moors in England. Since every grouse moor owner I have ever met has said that his grouse moor could cope with a pair of Hen Harriers (but not any more) then if only someone weren’t bumping them off we would be half way to Mr Ali’s aim of having 250 pairs of Hen Harrier. Doesn’t sound that difficult really, does it. It’ll never happen.
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Sadly the Newton Rigg training of game keepers has a lot to learn about ………………….. !!
John – interesting points you make there, but not ones that I could publish here.
You could easily add say 40 on Dartmoor, 40 on the North Forest of Exmoor, 20 Bodmin and Cornwall, 20 New Forest Heaths, 10 Dorset Heaths, 20 Salisbury Plain, 10 Shropshire Hill Country, with smaller numbers on numerous other smaller sites like the Quantocks, Mendips and even places like Cannock Chase.
Ian – yes, easy. If only there were some recruits to fill those places up then we would see what happened. Those numbers seem very high to me though. I’m glad that you are so very keen to see lots of Hen Harriers though it seems as though they have to be in somebody else’s back yard rather on the grouse moors of your (GWCT’s) members.
The place to start would obviously be all those SPAs in the north of England that were partly designated for their Hen Harrier populations and now don’t have any in a normal year.
Mark, Defra is leading the hen harrier Joint Action Plan and they are doing a good job. What makes you so sure it will fail? Why not support the plan?
Andrew – it would be difficult to support a plan that is invisible to me! Would you like to publish the plan here?
From what I hear, there is no plan, there is no agreement and there is no prospect of either in the near future. Government will have to take a position and the only legal position they could take would be unacceptable to the criminals who are killing Hen Harriers. Government is playing for time and that suits those who are in favour of the status quo – the status quo is the virtual extinction of the Hen Harrier in England.
Great idea Andrew, if as Mark suggests it does exist and does appear then we could all consider supporting it perhaps?
It would be great to have something positive from Defra like a JAP for Hen Harrier, look forward to it being made available on Mark’s blog or provision of a link via this blog.
I recall someone suggesting support payments for Harrier SPAs on actual breeding success, might that have been incorporated into this mystical and ellustive JAP?
“it seems as though they have to be in somebody else’s back yard”
Great! I really would like some in my back yard. I don’t live on a grouch moor and I have never knowingly seen an hen harrier, so I would like some if that could be done as soon as possible to control the gooney birds and partridges that wander in uninvited.
Along with some rat eagles, vole hawks, mole harriers and any other feathered or furred predators to backfill for the the abundant wols and buzzards that are not currently fulfilling their service level agreements.
I can think of some furred predators that might help, Filbert. Release a big bunch of Honey Badgers and Wolverine. I’m confident they would reduce the 47,000 vermin (or is it 30,000?) down to more manageable numbers.
As I recall from the first PACEC report, grouse moors provide about 5,000 shooting days a year (and this will be best case scenario of course, not taking account of poor weather, poor breeding performance, cycling populations etc. After all, it is really about maintaining capital land value). It seems unlikely that 47,000 different individuals are involved. More likely 4,700 individuals shooting 10 days over the season. So, more likely to be half-filling the ground at Scunthorpe United than Old Trafford.
Jack =- that’s interesting, thank you. Lower League stuff, indeed.
Jack – – BASC just provided me with this link http://www.shootingfacts.co.uk/pdf/pacecmainreport.pdf (p14). So it’s an estimated 59,000 gun/days for driven and walked up grouse-shooting combined.
Even if it were 47000 people killing Red Grouse that is still a tiny figure compared with the number of people who are paying their subscriptions to charities and NGOs to protect Hen Harriers and Golden Eagles (and Mountain Hares and every other bit of wildlife scrubbed from upland Britain). Yet government appears to bend over to accommodate the estates and the shooters rather than those of us who prefer our wildlife alive. As is so often the case, it’s not ‘how many they are’ that is important, it’s ‘who they are’ that counts.
Charlie – BASC just provided me with this link http://www.shootingfacts.co.uk/pdf/pacecmainreport.pdf (p14). So it’s an estimated 59,000 gun/days for driven and walked up grouse-shooting combined.
So it looks as if both Jack Valiant and BASC are talking from roughly the same figures.
5,000 shooting days would equal roughly 59,000 gun/days if 11 or 12 people took part in each shoot.
If those shooting only shot on average twice a year we are down to under 30,000 people (the population of Warwick). Take out those involved in walked up shooting only and take out those that shoot on average more than twice we start to come down to the population of a market town.
I think we should compare this to the Bird Fair where the attendance is well over 20,000 and increasing. That is also an income generator or else the trade stands wouldn’t turn up.
Bob – good points, thank you.
Sorry to be late getting back to you but I’ve been away conserving things. My numbers were I thought rather conservative, bearing in mind the numbers we know can build up. I was not suggesting that they should be in someone else’s backyard, two of those locations are in mine and as far as I can see perfectly suitable. Nor was I leaving out the grouse moors, you had already accounted for them, I was merely answering your implied question of where the ‘rest’ would come from.