Yesterday I received my voting papers for the Labour leadership and deputy leadership elections.
As you can see, I haven’t got very far in filling them in.
I have to say that I am very drawn to Jeremy Corbyn for a variety of reasons – several of them bad reasons!
First, he is older than I am! It would be nice to get back to a time when political leaders have a bit of experience and want to have a nap in the afternoon (as I sometimes do).
Second, he looks like a nice man – it’s partly the beard I think. I wonder whether he has slippers and a pipe too.
Third, I don’t know very much about him so he’d be a refreshing change – and we all need a change in politics.
Fourth, he quite clearly is not power-hungry, but now he has almost had the Labour leadership thrust upon him he seems to be knuckling down and getting on with things in a very workmanlike way. I like that.
Fifth, so much of the Labour Party keep telling me that I shouldn’t vote for him that it makes me all the keener to do so.
But those are bad reasons (and nobody has ever made any decision based on bad reasons have they?), and it seems to me that there are some good reasons too.
First, he had claimed the smallest expenses of all 650 MPs in 2010 which is a tangible example of a wider aspect of his life – he appears to walk the talk.
Second, he is on the left of the Party and has good credentials of opposing things that I opposed in my youth (nuclear arms, apartheid etc) and therefore he feels like a kindred spirit. And I should vote for what I want, shouldn’t I?
Third, he represents a real alternative to Cameron and Osborne – not a socially responsible shadow of them. The centre ground of British politics is in the wrong place if we are to create a better world – we need a shift to the left and only Corbyn represents that shift.
But then there is Yvette Cooper, who has disappointed me in this leadership contest. There are many good things about Yvette, not least that David Cameron would find it difficult to deal with her in the Commons, I feel. But my lack of enthusiasm for Ms Cooper is that only rarely does she break free of the scripted narrative (as they say – no really they do!). She hasn’t seemed like a straight-talking passionate politician wanting to change the world for the better – or at least, only rarely. Yvette is too old New Labour in that every utterance feels like it comes from a spin doctor’s cold calculating soul rather than from her own warm, fast-beating heart.
Current betting from Betfair shows Corbyn a very strong favourite at around 1/3, Burnham 4/1, Cooper 12/1 and Kendall 125/1.
You can see, that for a mixture of good and bad reasons, I am leaning to Mr Corbyn. Talk me out of it – go on, have a go!
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I’d rather not talk you out of it.
I have to agree that Yvette sounds too much as though she is maintaining the tired old new Labour threads.
Jeremy opposed the Iraq war. I stopped voting labour after Blair ploughed on following Bush.
Has Jeremy said anything about the environment or nature?. Remember there was negligible discussion of those matters despite ‘Vote for Bob’ etc in the election.
If I am to look to vote Labour next time I have to see a set up where it looks as though they have some passion about the things I care about, fairness, responsibility, sensible regulation and good standards.
Jeremy Corbyn is the only candidate who has openly supported all renewables, condemned nuclear power, trident and TTIP.
As is often the case, Mark, you have articulated my feelings on the election. I, too, am leaning towards Corbyn, but have been deeply disappointed by Yvette Cooper’s weak campaign. I felt challenged by Rob to find out more about Corbyn on the environment – especially in view of scare stories about re-opening mines – and found the following:
http://www.jeremyforlabour.com/winning_with_a_greener_future
Thanks for the link Kevin,
What Jeremy says looks quite good but of course sadly we are used to politicians who make the right noises in their promises.
I remember ( I think) that Jeremy had been negative about green issues in one of Tony Benn’s diaries. I think it was largely to do with preserving jobs in coal etc, but a few years has passed since then.
Thanks for the link, Kevin.
Well I’ll have a go. I don’t want to live under a Tory Government for the next 20 years. I doubt that Mark does either.
Labour lost the last election – and its much more true to say that they lost it than that the Tories won it – because Ed Miliband and his policies were simply not credible. He wasn’t a plausible Prime Minister and it was all too obvious that he couldn’t do sums. You really think Corbyn is more credible? You really think that spend now, worry later, is a great economic plan? Check out how that worked out for Greece.
All your arguments in favour of Corbyn would also have applied to Nigel Foot. Apart from that he didn’t have a beard. How did that work out? My entire young adulthood was dominated by Margaret Thatcher, a politician who defined herself by all the people she loathed. Probably the most divisive PM of the century, even including Mr Blair and his disastrous war in Iraq.
Politics is the art of the possible. Like a marriage it should be a place where compromise is seen as a good thing and not a failure. In politics principles are useful only in as much as they can affect change. Otherwise they’re just affectation.
Vote Corbyn, get Osborne. Sound like the 1980s all over again? Please, please, no.
jbc – well articulated, thank you.
But would you get Osborne? They are only there by the skin of their teeth…mainly due to the collapse of the Liberals. Now that the Liberals are detoxifying themselves of their right wing infestation they will probably be able to claw back at least a third of what they lost.
Corbyn might not win over tories, but he will strengthen the traditional labour vote. I don’t see him loosing seats. Puts us back in coalition territory.
Michael Foot. Even older than JC.
It’s all about principle surely not simply about who will get in? Voting on the principles that mostly align themselves to your way of thinking.
Of course Michael Foot did a lot of good in opposition too! He was also the first politician I could recognise (due to a broken foot!) at the age of 4!!
Oh and he was a Plymouth Argyle supporter so he would have got my vote on that alone!
He was a staunch republican – He rejected honours from the Queen and the government, including a knighthood and a peerage, on more than one occasion, which made him a man of sound principle.
If Corbyn is similar in that regard he could make a change for the better just when British politics needs politicians of good principles the most!
He could make a change for the better ONLY if Labour gets elected (not going to happen under Corbyn) and then also only if their policies work (which his won’t, appealing as they are).
I accept that my 2nd point is subjective, but I suggest that the first is not.
I’ve long thought that we get the politicians we deserve. We don’t often elect people, of any persuasion, who tell us hard truths. Osborne and co won’t tell us how hard their policies really impact on the poorest and how swimmingly upon the richest. Corbyn won’t tell us that his lovely left wing ideals are not within the power of any government to deliver (see Greece again).
If you’re an environmentalist and you want to support a party of protest rather than a credible alternative, then at least vote for a party of environmental protest – vote Green and be done with it. If you want an actual government that is not Tory then vote for someone other than Corbyn.
Hello jbc,
I don’t believe the other three candidates look as though they can lead Labour to a victory either. If the electorate are going to go with austerity then it will be a job to sell austerity light anyway. Tories are enthusiastic about their direction. Labour just trying to be softer about the same thing.
Strange things can happen but I also can’t see Jeremy Corbyn being able to project a winning message either.
However Jeremy has a fresh and different message which should be and needs to be voiced.
The other three would kill all hen harriers and gulls if they thought it would get them power. Jeremy would seek a science based solution that wouldn’t involve any killing
In October 1996 he signed a motion opposing the cull of Ruddy Ducks in the UK. Can you forgive that? Maybe you weren’t at the RSPB at that time. I was on his side at the time.
PeterD – I can forgive that. Although he was wrong!
Gordon Brown’s speech on Sunday convinced me away from Corbyn. The main thing that stuck with me was that it reminded me that I vote Labour not for me but because of labour’s social values. I think I probably share similar left wing ideals as Corbyn and I’m disappointed and rejected that there is little engagement with environment issues with Labour and the country and so part of me wants to make Labour a party of protest. But I think Gordon shows wisdom in saying “the best way of realising our high ideals is to show we have an alternative in Government that is credibility, is radical and is electable. That is neither a pale imitation of what the Tories offer. Nor is the route to becoming a party of permanent protest.”
It is easy to hold very left wing ideals but less easy to convince what increasing looks to be the right wing public to vote for you. I favour Andy Burnham and think his passion for social care to become joined up with the NHS could be a vote winner.
Owen – thank you
Yes, my instincts are with Corbyn, but my practical mind says vote him 2 and Andy Burnham 1.That way Labour have a chance of getting elected and a chance of offering something different.Bit like the abolishing of grouse-shooting, small steps in the right direction!
Andy Burnham is just continuing the farce that is new labour, he’s just another PR puppet. What Labour needs is a regression to its founding principles and at last there’s a genuine guy talking common sense. Your reasoning that there’s more chance of Labour getting into power with a leader other than Corbyn is absolute nonsense.
& Gordon Brown won an election, after he himself was elected as PM?
IMHO three out of four are behaving like the puppets in a badly delivered punch & judy show.
Another observation from the side-lines is that it seems that Corbyn has at least attracted young people to take an interest in politics and to join the party?
I don’t get a vote in the leadership election, but I ask myself would I vote for any of them for PM and sadly three appear motivated by self aggrandisement rather than social or environmental principles?
Time for serious Westminster reform, two horse race is not real democracy. 11% payrise and ever increasing numbers of patronage places filling the benches.
Many people credit Gordon Brown with winning a once in a life time referendum which must be bigger than a general election.
I think the other three are not coming across very well and are struggling to gain the interest of the media beyond the story of the rise of Corbyn and warnings of Labour doom. I think a lack of creativity is a serious problem for the party but I think the Corbyn warning stories are also exactly the kind of thing much of the media want to report about Labour.
I agree about Corbyn attracting interest and support from young people. I think Labour was great need for another familiar face among the further left side of the party to show the diversity that exists in the party. Corbyn has been great for the leadership contest – I just don’t think he is the wisest choice for leader.
I’d be well up for a revolution of Westminster but if the Government says no I would not hesitate to vote for any of them for a Labour PM if it would keep out Osborne!
From what I seen of Burnham I think he is really passionate about social care and social justice. I wish he was more environmentally motivated but his promises for Government investment in the green economy and a moratorium on fracking is a start and I have hope he’ll be a strong voice on Climate Change as COP21 nears.
Owen,
Are you convinced that any of the other three are electable, or radical?
Yes I have hope that all three would be electable and would be successful in convincing enough people who voted Tory to swing support to Labour. I think Andy Burnham is the most radical while also remaining credible.
More of the same will not see the Labour party return to power, as the last election demonstrated. That is all the other three have to offer. A great many people feel disenfranchised by the lack of any discernible difference between the Tories and a Labour party that has been dominated for years by an Oxbridge group whose principles seem to be whatever a focus group tells them it is ! They don’t see these people as an alternative government. We need some principle and honesty back in politics if the public are ever to feel a sense of engagement. Corbyn seems to have that, which is why he is way ahead in the polls and why the party establishment is so frightened by him. He is not some extremist nutcase and has not advocated anything that isn’t already successful in governments in, for example, Scandinavia, which has both the highest standard of living and the best social policies on the continent.
I am genuinely puzzled by Labour’s antics (which may, admittedly, be more to do with my lack of understanding than anything else). And though I have never voted for Labour, I find the present predicament unnerving. Whilst Corbyn has quietly gone about his business, there has been a frenzied backlash against a political figure not seen in British politics since… well, the General Election and the Nicola Sturgeon for one, and the Independence Referendum and Alex Salmond for another. I doubt that Blair (if he’d stood again) would have been re-elected. Brown definitely wasn’t re-elected and Miliband didn’t convince enough voters either. If, as stated in many places, Corbyn is so unelectable, why is everyone assuming that more of the same is such a great idea? I’d say give the bloke a chance because he doesn’t strike me as someone who has much time for the Westminster Bubble. And until that bursts, the electorate will have precious little faith in many of its politicians.
Listening to the man who convinced me to join the Labour Party (Neil Kinnock) this morning would convince me not to vote for Corbyn. He’s another Michael Foot. Principled but unelectable. However listening to the man who convinced me to leave the Labour Party (Tony Bliar) last week talking scaremongering nonsense might have convinced me to vote for Corbyn, if I had a vote.
I won’t get a vote in this election as, after being a member for many years, I left the Labour Party some time ago. I like a lot of what Corbyn says and does. I like a lot of what the Green Party says and does but are either going to appeal to enough of the the largely conservative (with a small c) British electorate to put them in power? Sadly, I think not in the foreseeable future. You can see why Jeremy Corbyn appeals to so many Labour supporters but that, I’m afraid, does not necessarily win elections.
You can spit on New Labour all you like (as I have done) but they did get 3 consecutive terms of office!
Go on vote for him Mark,never have voted Labour yet but if any of the other three get as leader I can see that continuing quite easily whereas if Labour are to get in they have to get some of us over to them and personally I could possibly be swayed by him.
Mark, I too am having trouble making up my mind. One issue that has not really come out is who would make best LEADER. We are not in a Party that appoints a leader and then slavishly follows that leader’s policies alone. A good leader needs to be able to capture the wide range of views in the Party without being too dictatorial and then shape those views into electable policy. I thus find the focus on policies is relevant, but is not really examining leadership qualities. I am still not sure though…. any thoughts? (and PS Enjoyed one of your recent books so far, onto the next shortly!)
I strongly agree with you.
If anyone came along who demonstrated being a good leader they would squash the tories, despite the fact that I believe Scotland has firmly rejected labour and the tories are going to change constituency boundaries to their favour.
Mark, although it doesn’t totally convince me to vote for Yvette Cooper, try reading an article in yesterdays (17th) ‘i’ newspaper. It’s by Oliver Wright ‘Why Cooper is determined to stop Corbyn’ It may give you a nudge in her direction.
The problem is that none of them are credible. Labour will be stuffed for ten years with any of this bunch.
I attended a JC rally last week in Dundee.. I’d advise you go to such an event and you will very quickly decide against that direction. You will see it is the very much converted speaking to the even more preachy – there was no questioning, no real encouragement to anyone wavering in the middle. To me, another long standing member of the LP since 1981, it was a sad return to the old “Militant” days of the those days. That did not serve anyone well. Whilst some policies appeal to individuals (nationalise railways for me!), the whole bundle was going to go nowhere. But I repeat – go along if you can and be unimpressed!
I can’t (talk you out of it) – because, again and uncannily, you have articulated the thoughts that were swimming around my subconscious. If Corbyn continues to say what he thinks and believes with passion and integrity, he could be our Nicola Sturgeon! One of my misgivings, though, is that he might be easy for the media to destroy – because of his age, that beard etc. etc. – he doesn’t fit the smooth-skinned, dark-haired, youthful stereotype of party leader that has been fed to us of late. Think what they did to lovely Michael Foot.
In my humble opinion, Labour lost the 2010 election because of two propaganda messages which were endlessly repeated by the media from day one after the election – both succeeded because of a failure of Labour PR: 1. Labour, not the banks/world financial crisis, was responsible for our economic crisis; 2. Scare-mongering about immigration. The economy and immigration were again the two issues discussed almost to the exclusion of everything else (certainly the environment) before the 2015 election – in the media and, it seemed, on the street. And people seemed to believe the propaganda of the right.
If Labour could just fight back (and as soon as the election is over, not just a few weeks before the next when it is too late) with their own PR mantras, and say what they believe is right, loudly and clearly, wouldn’t that convince enough people for vote for them? If Corbyn can do this, isn’t he a Good Thing? And even if they fail to win, don’t the people who have the same thoughts and beliefs need a party to represent them and give them a voice? If not Labour, who? The Greens, then?
Probably just being a naive, middle-aged idealist……….
George Monbiot puts the case for Jeremy Corbyn very well in the Guardian today. I’ve paid my £3 and will be voting for him and will join the Labour party if he wins. As far as I am concerned its about time Labour returned to its core values and stopped selling its principles down the river in return for so-called electability. None of the other candidates have a prayer of winning the next election either if the SNP surge continues but if Corbyn can engage with the electorate and, in particular young people and those, like me, who feel totally disenfranchised, then that can only be a good thing. Who knows, maybe we will have our own SNP moment. I live in a Conservative stronghold and my vote in every election is wasted . This one I hope will not be. If nothing else Jeremy Corbyn sticks to his principles which is more than the vast majority of modern politicians has ever done.
Mark, I’m not going to try to talk you into or out of voting for anyone (as a servant of CPRE I have no politics…) but I thought you might be interested in my blog on what the candidates are saying about the environment. It took quite a long time to find not very much – some policies, particularly from Jeremy Corbyn, but no strong green narrative from any of them.
I hope you make the right choice!
https://cpreviewpoint.wordpress.com/2015/08/14/what-the-labour-leadership-candidates-are-saying-or-not-saying/
Shaun – that’s very handy thank you. I tried, in a rather desultory way, to do the same thing but it seemed very hard work to find anything – which told me all that i needed to know. Many thanks and best wishes to you!
To me it seems parties win landslides when they can convince the nation they will govern in the interests of all the people and not a select few. Clement Attlee managed this, as did Maggie Thatcher in her second and third elections, and Tony Blair in his first and second elections.
The tired cliché that labour can’t win if it goes to the left and conservatives can’t win if it goes to the right , to me, doesn’t seem to bare scrutiny. They can do both these things (as Clement and Maggie showed), but only if they tell an inclusive story that captures the imagination of most of the population.
From what I’ve heard of Jeremy Corbyn so far it seems he could, especially with an adept use of social media, be the person to bring a message of inclusivity to the nation and win a landslide. Certainly more so than the other three robots in the leadership contest.
I say take a gamble on Jeremy and at the end of the day if he’s not doing well in 2 years there’s still time for another leadership contest before the 2020 GE. And hopefully the discussions within the party over those 2 years will allow some new, fresher candidates to appear.
Why do you even have to ask Mark?
How utterly depressing.
Yeah. vote Cooper if you want. Do you think she’ll do anything of note?
I dare say you’ll attach as much weight to my thoughts on this as you do about driven grouse shooting, but if I were a Labour supporter I would be concerned about some of Corbyn’s foreign policy positions – (quite apart from his fiscal and economic proposals).
His “friendly” attitude towards Hamas has been well canvassed. Less attention has been paid to the fact that he would categorise the USA and Isis as effectively on a par (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRqOQfSw8vA). Less egregious, but equally flawed in my view, is his argument that Russia’s involvement in Ukraine is essentially a response to American imperialism and expansionism (http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-972b-Nato-belligerence-endangers-us-all#.VdX4VCghzwy). And you may question his apparent preparedness in the past to excuse Milosevic (http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2004-05/392).
All that said, I quite agree that the other candidates have been woefully uninspiring.
Views like this make me despair. It isn’t as if the information isn’t all out there easily avialble for you to see.
David Cameron, Tony Blair and a host of others (the Royal family for example) not only meet with lots of extremely unpleasant torturing, murdering types, but also if we’re going to pick up on the media distortion re Corbyn, with active holocaust deniers such as Saudi Arabia and many others. Oh, and we sold them weapons by the bucketload, some of which we’re then used against us. Brilliant, eh? But when Corbyn tries to talk with people and get some movement for a peace process, you go nuts – as the media tells you to.
So my questions to you are “Why has the fact that our elected politicians AND LEADERS have met such people in the past not bothered you enough to make you question is before?”
and “Why are you only addressing this to Corbyn now?”
and rhetorically, why on Earth do you think you deserve to be taken remotely seriously given this existing paradox?
I welcome the fact that you are concerned about who our politicians deal with. All you have to now, is apply that concern equally, fairly and sensibly.
I don’t have a vote and anyway my preferred candidate is Britain’s only Green MP…
I’m a Green party member, and have been for years, so I don’t get a vote on this (no really, I didn’t register)
However, I am probably like many people who voted Green, or didn’t bother voting at the GE. I’m pro the NHS, I want to help support the most vulnerable in our society and the wider World. I care about the planet, Pro renewables, anti-fracking. I want to see a sustainable future, free healthcare and education for all, a fairer society. I want climate change to be taken seriously ( I could go on, but you’ve got the picture.)
Labour didn’t offer me these solutions.. I wanted them to win because they are better than the Tories, I couldn’t bare placing my X in the Labour box.
Would I vote for Corbyn if I could, I probably would. What do I really want to see? Corbyn to lose, then him and all his thousands of supporters break away to make a new radical left party, and maybe, just perhaps. I, and thousands like me would be standing right behind him
Almost five years of Corbyn v Cameron before any election and prospect of Labour Government. What’s not to like? Five years to make Cameron miserable and for Corbyn to show whether he is PM material? We should be grateful for the opportunity….
4 years to watch Theresa, Gideon and Boris stab each other in the back in the mad fight to step into Miserable Dave’s shoes!