There seem to be a few more people jumping around looking at Denton Wood all of a sudden – although as you can see (above) you and I aren’t allowed in the wood itself and you can see precious little from the Denton Road (see below).
As is often the case, when something appears on this blog (here and here) I get told lots of snippets of information by local people who don’t want to be named or thanked. Thank you! There is a surprising amount of local concern about what is happening in this wood considering how difficult it is to see!
The wood is leased by FC (which is why that sign above exists – all FC-owned land (more or less) is public access) and the shooting rights are reserved (see right – almost obscured by plants). You can go shooting in this wood for ducks, Pheasants and partridges, and bag a few Woodcock too. In such cases it is not uncommon for the management of the timber to be heavily influenced by the desire of the owners to make money from the shooting in the winter.
If you are a farmer (in England, in 2016 (I don’t think it has changed)) you must not cut or trim hedges or trees from 1 March (although coppicing and hedge laying is allowed until 30 April) and can only start again on 1 September. This is largely, though not entirely, because birds are nesting at this time and it’s pretty obvious that you’ll be disturbing birds and potentially killing them too. Farmers moan like hell about this but government is pretty firm on the rules. But when it comes to chopping down trees it’s far easier – provided you don’t know that there is a bird nesting 40 feet off the ground in that tree then it seems as though you can cut it down.
I’ll keep you up to date with any developments.
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I have Electricity North West coming to destroy my nests on 14th June. They will not back off and claim the contractors will look for nests[ before destroying them!] So I have tried both RSPB and Natural England. They do not want to know even though the property backs up to an RSPB reserve! The police were better –
Please try and take photos of any of the nests/birds that are currently there, and if they return to carry out the work tell them the police are aware etc, and if they persist in attempting to do the work give us a ring on 101 or 999 and we will happily assist.
So if they are trying to cut at my property how many more areas have they wrecked all ready?
Thanks to the police and the RSPB the work has now been put back till 1st August!!!
Rather than hedges, crop spraying down tramlines is the more relevant comparison: the law is quite clear, for the economic exemption to operate there must be a necessity to carry out work in the nesting season – clearly not for hedge trimming, clearly for crop spraying. The science shows Skylark favour nesting in the tramlines – but I’m not sure I’ve ever seen that raised in this sort of debate. I suspect its because people perceive modern arable as a factory floor, and woodland as ‘natural’, neither of which are strictly true, of course.
Roderick – are you saying that tree felling has to be done in the birds’ nesting season? I don’t think so.
For what it’s worth and even though the damage has been done already, so might not seem worth it, but couldn’t you ask someone to send a small drone over Denton Wood and film what has been cut down?
It’s disappointing to see that the Royal Society for the PROTECTION of Birds “do not want to know” about the potential destruction of an active bird’s nest.
It upsets me to see tree felling during the nesting season. There appears to be so many more ‘tree surgery’ businesses advertising their work these days, and I guess that most of them aren’t going to wait until September to operate.
On a similar note; in the past I have contacted the RSPB when I’ve seen moorland being spread with sewage sludge, or rushy pasture spread with paper sludge, both during the spring when ground nesting birds are attempting to increase their population. In all cases I have been disappointed with Society’s response, in effect saying that it’s just hard luck for those birds that are affected.
What does one do about a curlew’s nest that lies in the path of the silage contractor’s mower? Could a farmer be prosecuted for destroying a the nest if he/she was made aware of the nest location prior to the grass being cut? My local curlews have rarely managed to successfully raise a brood because of the early cutting. I fear that I won’t hear evocative curlew sounds from my local pair in future springs.
I wish I could add a positive note to my negative comments here, but when it comes to land management there seems to be a never ending, nay increasing pressure on our nature, at least in my neck of the woods.
It seems that intervention from the RSPB and the police has actually helped in this instance according to John Miles. I think to expect the RSPB to intervene in each and every instance like this is bonkers – it’s up to all of us to get stuck in. Around me right now I have farmers cutting hay from fields full of skylark and meadow pipit nests, a pub chopping down ash trees and hawthorn scrub with nesting greenfinches, beach hut owners dumping grass trimmings into an area with rock pipits nesting and a bloke repairing his roof despite an active swift colony…….. the RSPB can’t intervene in all these instances that are replicated across the country right now unless people like you, Andy, give them an awful lot more cash so they can employ and awful lot more staff. It’s up to people like YOU to get stuck in, Andy, and not MOAN about the RSPB at every opportunity.
What a shame as the Compton Estate (if that who owns shooting rights) has quite a good reputation as a shoot with plenty of bird of prey, set aside on their farmland and other things
Mark – simply, yes – with literally billions of pounds of investment in harvesting equipment & processing plants it is economically impossible to have it all standing idle for 1/3rd – 1/2 of the year, and that is what the argument for economic necessity is based on – in the same way farmers argue for economic necessity over tramline spraying. I recognise that this is an exceptionally difficult area – which the Law Commission review failed to resolve, and I can’t say I know what the right answer is. But at the bottom of it is the conflict between protecting individuals & protecting populations. When I reviewed this for both the ICF and FC around the Law Commission review I did propose that we should adopt the principle of never knowingly destroying a known nest – relatively easy in thinning, less so in clearfell.
Roderick – yes, then there are those economically damaging raptors on grouse moors…
I understand that within the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 no dates are legally stated between which hedges cannot be trimmed. However there is a requirement that you do not intentionally destroy a bird or current nest when hedge cutting.The keyword here is intentional. If you check over a hedge first before cutting it then that apparently is ok. In the north of England it is well into April before hedges are in leaf.
If a farmer is in a single payments sceme or the hedge is entered into an agri environment scheme then you must not cut or trim after 1st March
Hedges and the Law
Dave – and almost all farms are in single payment scheme so the rules apply.
Yes but it isnt only farms that have hedges !
England really needs a Right To Roam Act. It boggles my mind that there can be “No Public Access” signs there and the public denied access to any land that isn’t a garden or something like that. It is bizarre.
Mark, as you know this is a rather different case to Grouse moors – not least because foresters have and are making huge efforts to minimise impact, in contrast to grouse moors which have consistently dismissed ways to mitigate predation on their grouse.
There is also the huge issue of the immediate – and I’m not claiming that felling during the nesting season is desirable, or that it does not make a short term mess – against the longer term – in this case, the real damage to biodiversity being done by lack of management in woodland including many nature reserves. I’m not sure any scientist has yet suggested that tree felling is currently threatening any species in the UK. Lack of management – woods getting darker and darker on a huge scale – is the principle threat to a wide range of plants and animals including iconic species like bluebell, nightingale and woodland butterflies.
Whilst guidelines and the law should be adhered to, the reality is the only component of this wood suffering as a result of the felling is the conifer – within 18 months the biodiversity of this wood will have improved dramatically and within 5 years it will be a clear candidate for SSSI designation.
If you want to see the real problem, compare RSPB Highnham Woods, brilliantly managed for coppice, with the darkening, stood over coppice of Glos WT Lower Woods directly opposite across the Severn estuary. there you have the largely hidden, un-commented on tragedy of current woodland management.
Roderick – I probably agreed more with your position before we started discussing it here. It’s been interesting to explore this issue. I wonder how widespread breeding season tree felling is – by FC and licensed by FC.
However, it is illegal deliberately to destroy any nest. The law does not have a ‘it won’t affect the population level’ defence.
If there is a lot of felling without checking properly for nests in the bird nesting season then it is inevitable that nests will be destroyed. That might make the destruction deliberate. But I won’t be contacting any lawyers.
Your argument appears to be; FC are good guys, there’s a greater conservation benefit and it would cost FC money. That is very similar to the grouse moor owners’ argument, isn’t it? And it would certainly apply to farmers cutting hedges too.
No doubt FC staff will be able to show that they have taken all precautions to avoid harm, and have surveyed the wood to make sure that there are no Schedule 1 species there – which would be a different kettle of fish altogether wouldn’t it?
How about the Great Crested Newts? Let’s hope that FC has followed its own guidelines to others.
In conifers, felling will be pretty evenly spread across the year. For hardwood timber felling is only when the sap is down – but before you say why not conifers as well, the quantities are much smaller. Similarly, felling the (sadly) small quantity of coppice will generally be in the winter – real coppice workers can spend the spring & summer making things from it !
No, the arguments aren’t the same as grouse moors or farmers – firstly FC aren’t knowingly making a bird species extinct in England – the evidence is exactly the opposite ! Secondly, Fc follows the same approach as farmers to activities that are not seasonally limited – so ‘cleaning’ removing some young trees from stands at the scrubby stage is always done in winter in what is a particularly rich breeding habitat.
On schedule 1 species, FC’s record is pretty exemplary – a huge amount of effort goes into working around Goshawk in particular, and a lot of the ringed Nightjar are seen and driven around by tractor drivers spraying in places like Sherwood and Thetford.
I think beyond that, and particularly as far as the Newts are concerned, the debate needs populating with some facts which FC may be ready to supply.
Roderick – ‘some facts that FC may be ready to supply’? Maybe now, but haven’t been very forthcoming to others before these blog posts.
And your arguments are very similar to those of many others: we aren’t really bending the rules, and if we are, then nobody should mind.
Fair points, Mark ! It’ll be interesting to see how things develop – and hope your case for restored ancient woods to become SSSIS succeeds.