What did the EU ever do for us? Lead ban on the cards?

Mark 28 Comments

I thought this was an interesting piece in Shooting UK online – click here.

That the EU is moving to a complete ban on lead ammunition is not surprising or a secret – and is long overdue.

I thought what was interesting was the quote from BASC’s Caroline Bedell;

There are a number of uncertainties around this process at the moment, not least of which is the potential impact of Brexit and how the UK will respond legislatively to future directives from Europe.

Nevertheless, the EC and ECHA have clearly signalled their intent to seek a hard-line approach in support of a complete ban on the use of lead.

BASC is working closely with colleagues at FACE to ensure the interests of the UK shooting community and ammunition manufacturers are fully represented in Europe. There is still plenty of time for organisations, manufacturers and individuals to have an input.

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/news/eu-moving-towards-outright-ban-lead-shot-107769#RwFtllFQ1GYI7Bqi.99

This is the BASC Director of Conservation speaking. Conservation of what? Outmoded poisonous ammunition?

I display this as another example of how those who pretend to care about the environment, but do not act in its best interests, are warmer to the prospect of Brexit than most of the rest of us. BASC will say in private that they know the days of lead are numbered but in public speak up for it, or at least against any move to remove it on environmental and wildlife conservation grounds.

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28 Replies to “What did the EU ever do for us? Lead ban on the cards?”

    1. Nick, I think there was an article on trials with non-lead pellets in the BASC mag a couple of issues back?

    2. An article in one of the Gun comics noted that non-lead pellets were lighter and harder than the equivalent lead pellets and in some instances the muzzle velocity was greater. This infers that you could be imprisoned for having non-lead ammunition if the MV of your gun/pellet combination exceeded the FAC threshold.

      Apart from that the article mentioned that the HW77 used in tests performed well with non-lead ammo.

  2. It always amazes me how these EU do Gooders want to protect us from ourselves

    “The study added that it would also reduce health risks to a significant population of hunters and their families who frequently eat game meat killed with lead shot or bullets.”

    What ever next, they will want somebody walking in front of your car waving a flag!

    You would think with all the other problems the world faces with large number of people inflicting self harm with drugs, smoking and alcohol and activities like conflicts/wars, global warming they could focus their energy in a better direction that a tiny minority that chose to eat what they kill.

    Thank god we are leaving the EU.

    1. John, tell that to the tens of thousands of wildfowl and waders that die from lead poisoning every year.
      Even despite the fact it has been illegal to shoot wildfowl with lead shot for decades.

      1. Funny thing is Daniel, you never see pictures of these tens of thousands of wildfowl and waders collected by the tides washed up on the marsh or shore every year do you? where do the the bodies go? You would think the smell and mess would make them easy to spot and when fowling you would be walking knee deep in decades of bones.
        So exactly how is nature so unobserved disposing of ten of thousands every year?

    2. 1) If members of the shooting community wish to ingest lead then that’s up to them but the birds that unwittingly ingest lead that has been sprayed all over the countryside don’t have the option to avoid it. There’s no need to use lead shot so let’s stop doing so.

      2) Why do you assume that focusing attention on one problem (the desirability of using lead ammunition) means that its not possible to also focus attention on other problems such as the ones you mention? I would suggest a tiny fraction of the EU’s attention is addressed at this issue.

      1. 1) not a very evidence based reply is it? Why do you assume the birds are eating the lead sprayed all over the countryside?
        I have never shot a pigeon opened it’s crop up and found it contained lead shot ingested with cereal, rape etc.

        2) well they are not doing a very good job at solving the worlds problems are they? Let’s face it the world is in a mess and they just play around with tiny little issues because they have no idea or hope of fixing the bigger problems like global warming.

    3. John, I think another problem with what you say, additional to what Daniel and Jonathan have written, is that if it were just a matter of protecting you from yourself your point would have some force: you can still e.g. smoke if you can afford it. But in this case it is known for sure that children and would-be mums are particularly but not exclusively vulnerable to ingested lead intake – and their health matters rather a lot.
      It is also a big concern that the promotion of lead-shot game sales extends to public markets and creates risks outside our shooting community, especially for the above vulnerable groups. These markets are people who tend to take the healthiness of their food on trust from the suppliers who also have a public duty, which it is up to the shooting organisations to share with them, in order to “protect the vulnerable” (and also thereby to protect the future of shooting’s reputation).
      I know there is a lot of good work going on behind the scenes in this country as well as elsewhere in Europe to deal with these problems, but it will help hugely for grassroots shooters to reflect carefully and give support.

    4. In these situations, who exactly are the “do-gooders”, and who are the “do-badders”??

      If we accept the science, then shouldn’t we avoid putting lead into the environment? Are less harmful alternatives available? What is the cost-benefit analysis? Not liking the EU bureaucracy is not really part of an argument … they are catching up with other nations and even our own forestry commission.

  3. Remove lead from ammunition to avoid harms in the environment and there’s nothing to stop hunters/shooters or anyone else going to their local builders merchants, buying a roll of lead and having a scrape with their comestible of choice mmmm!

    Simples! Everybody happy.

    1. Depending on the age of your house and location your water pipes could still be lead so enjoy your fix.

      1. John – you really can’t put a case together can you?

        My water pipes aren’t lead, but if they were it would indeed be foolish of me to leave them like that if I knew the facts. And the alternatives were easily available and a similar price.

        But what the shooting industry is doing is campaigning against the removal of lead pipes on the ground that…??? And they are promoting the use of lead pipes by extolling the healthy natre of lead pipes because …/

        Great argument.

        1. Is not the problem that unlike smoking say where the science is supported by the medical evidence the risks of eating a game bird or two per season are just not numerically quantified. Ie eat one shorten your life by a week?

          And as with lead pipes other sources of lead are known and food in general e.g
          As a result of the Food and Drug Administration’s (FDA) concern about lead in the food supply, considerable data have been developed in recent years by FDA, other agencies, and industry on the levels of lead in foods. Data obtained on the lead content of milk, eggs, meat, fish, and shellfish indicate that the mean levels in these unprocessed foods varied from 0.02 to about 0.4 ppm, with the lowest level in milk.

          So ok BASC may say all game meat is good for you and you say it’s not because it may contain lead and they should say so but likewise half a dozen eggs does not contain a warning saying danger contains lead.

          Perhaps you should be campaigning for better food labelling.

        1. Probably contains? Not very scientific is it Mark and the same label can go on your eggs, milk, fish etc.

  4. So you fiddle while Rome burns?

    And women have known the danger of smoking whilst pregnant for many years but some chose to do so, free country last time I checked!

    The range of non-toxic options is not sufficient, for example the most popular small vermin/rabbit gun is .22lr used in the millions has no non-toxic option, then the small gauge shotguns used by many especially the young and disabled again have no viable non-toxic shot. Grassroot shooters like Wild Fowling, is not an issue the larger 12ga and 10ga used do have viable non-toxic shot.
    And with large supper markets demanding game shot with non-toxic game entering the food chain will contain no lead.
    Hopefully in time all ammunition and cartridges will be lead free but we are not their at this time.

      1. Mark, don’t know may be their was a gun buy back scheme for the small gauge guns or their cartridge manufactures are offering options we are not. But as below shows when one problem is solved another arises, but one day hopefully soon we will have removed all lead and plastic.

        Plastic litter from shotgun ammunition on Danish coastlines – Amounts and provenance.

        Kanstrup N1, Balsby TJS2.
        Author information
        1
        Department of Bioscience, Aarhus University, Grenåvej 14, 8410 Rønde, Denmark; Danish Academy of Hunting, Denmark. Electronic address: [email protected].
        2
        Department of Bioscience, Aarhus University, Grenåvej 14, 8410 Rønde, Denmark. Electronic address: [email protected].
        Abstract
        Plastic litter in the marine environment is a major global issue. Discarded plastic shotgun ammunition shells and discharged wads are an unwelcome addition and feature among the top ten litter items found on reference beaches in Denmark. To understand this problem, its scale and origins, collections were made by volunteers along Danish coastal shorelines. In all 3669 plastic ammunition items were collected at 68 sites along 44.6 km of shoreline. The collected items were scored for characteristic variables such as gauge and length, shot type, and the legibility of text, the erosion, and the presence of metallic components. Scores for characteristics were related to the site, area, and season and possible influences discussed. The prevalence of collected plastic shotgun litter ranges from zero to 41 items per 100 m with an average of 3.7 items per 100 m. Most ammunition litter on Danish coasts originates from hunting on Danish coastal waterbodies, but a small amount may come from further afield. North Sea coasts are the most distinctive suggesting the possible contribution of long distance drift as well as the likelihood that such litter can persist in marine habitats for decades. The pathway from initial discard to eventual wash-up and collection depends on the physical properties of plastic components, marine tides and currents, coastal topography and shoreline vegetation. Judging from the disintegration of the cartridge and the wear and decomposition of components, we conclude that there is a substantial supply of polluting plastic ammunition materials that has and will accumulate. These plastic items pose a hazard to marine ecosystems and wash up on coasts for many years to come. We recommend that responsible managers, hunters and ammunition manufacturers will take action now to reduce the problem and, thereby, protect ecosystems, wildlife and the sustainability of hunting.
        Copyright © 2018 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.

        The

        1. Your implication that the problem of plastic wads and shells accumulating on Danish beaches is somehow a consequence of the switch from lead ammunition is rubbish. We have the same problem here from people using lead-shot cartridges. Like many people, I see loads of empty shotgun cartridges and the plastic wads when I go walking in areas in the UK that are frequently shot over.
          It will come as no surprise to most readers here that there is more than one problem associated with shooting. I understand that cartridge manufacturers are now offering biodegradable wads which is a potential way forward on that issue. There is no excuse for shooters not taking the empty cartridges home with them and disposing of them properly.
          The use of lead is a separate issue from the plastic waste issue and there is no reason why solving one should exacerbate the other. The shooting community has it within its power to eliminate both issues and its a mystery why it would not wish to.

          1. In practice if using the only affordable alternative to lead shot ie steel shot then a plastic wad has to be used.
            Hence Denmark plastic problem.
            If using lead shot then non plastic biodegradable options are available and really their is no excuse not to be using them or picking up the spent case.
            The new biodegradable plastic wad* suitable for all shot types has been around for a few years now but it is very expensive adding around £100 to the cost of 1000 cartridges and just like virtually everything in life most people will not voluntarily pay more than they have to, to save planet earth.
            *See 2013 video
            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fco99hNB4AM

          1. Yep and why at it let’s ban anything that somebody else does not agree with here’s a few on my list, do add to it.

            Pet cats
            Smoking
            Alcohol
            Vaping
            Cars, vans, lorries
            Flying
            Wars
            MPs
            Remainers who will not accept a democratic vote.

  6. An interesting article in today’s Times (comments piece) suggesting that a ban on lead ammunition is overdue and that shooting organisations dragging their feet on the issue are doing themselves no favours.

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