My Mum is in her nineties – she’s the same age as David Attenborough and the Queen. At this time of year she always recounts to me and her grandchildren a story from her childhood in the 1930s in South Wales when carol singers came round to her house. On opening the door these were not kids hoping for some sweet money, or the socially active raising money for a charity but unemployed men, with drawn faces, hoping to be given what was essentially charity at this time of year.
This moment is not recorded on YouTube but I’m sure that it happened in the working class community where my Mum grew up and where her father was a miner.
There is no doubt at all that my mother’s origins were working class but she was encouraged to study at school by her parents and she trained to be a nurse, and it was while nursing that she met my father in Bristol. My father came from the class to which nobody wants to belong – the lower middle class of small businesses.
My Mum’s younger brother didn’t go down the pit as his father did, partly because the coal industry was coming to an end but also because he, too, studied and after quite a lot of mucking about in life became an accountant and stayed in that South Wales town.
My mother has seen over 90 Christmases and has lived a life during which the lot of the average person has improved immensely. She has lived through the introduction of State Pensions, the introduction of the National Health Service, a fairer deal for women and technological advances that have helped the lives of all.
And my Mum has lived through the rise to occasional power of the Labour Party which was growing at the time of her birth and which took much of its strength from working class communities such as the one in which she grew up. My maternal grandfather was a strong Labour man; my paternal grandfather, I guess, never voted Labour in his life.
You know a bit about me if you read this blog so I have no claim to be working class and our children are both graduates (in Mathematics of all things) and are the offspring of two Oxbridge graduates with doctorates, and they and their partners all have jobs where they make their living through their intellects more than their physical activity. But we’ll all be together at Christmas.
The problem with Labour relying on traditional working class communities is that they don’t exist any more – not much anyway. And even where they do then they aren’t oppressed by the bosses like they were. One of Labour’s problems is that it has won its old fights and not really found the new ones.
No reader of this blog will have had desperate unemployed men coming round singing carols this Christmas to help their families manage. The recent general election featured the NHS with all parties saying that they would do more for it. Pensions exist and all benefit from them. There is much more to be done, and I am sure which party would be best placed to do it (and it’s not in power) but the future is a fight for greater fairness rather than the removal of oppression.
And there are fewer working class people anyway. Those who really are working class are quite likely to be immigrant workers without a vote, or see themselves as sole traders aiming to be the leaders of small businesses in time. Who was it who said ‘We are all middle class now’? (and when? (22 years ago!), and he was right to a large extent then and even more so now).
And all these working class folk don’t live in communities any more. My Mum spent most of her life in Bristol after leaving South Wales but she has lived near us in Northamptonshire for two and a half decades now. But it could have been Leeds or London or eleswhere that she settled down if she had met someone other than my father. And I have spent very few nights in Bristol since I left there aged 17. Most of my life has been spent in Oxford, Cambridge or mostly the arc in between those two. And our kids live a four hour plus journey from us and have done since they both finished their first degrees. Many would have similar tales – and it is a good job the the telephone was invented, and the mobile phone and social media, otherwise the links would be so much harder to maintain.
Now the people closest to me have voted Conservative extremely sparingly over the last decades and there is little prospect that will change dramatically. And we are not typical, we are ourselves. But the class struggle is in the past, the future is in developing a society which is kinder and fairer, and hating the bosses is a bad place to start with that.
Labour needs to define its new struggles. And I’ll tell you what they should be: a fair and just society at home where all benefit from our achievements, internationalism (there is more to the world than trade deals and selling weapons to despots), and environmentalism (there is no greater threat to the people of the world than climate change and environmental degradation).
But we won’t be discussing this in great detail over Christmas although it may well come up.
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You are quite right Mark, the Labour Party or the centre left, call it what one will, needs to find a new identity. The old “working class” that “ always voted Labour”, has disappeared, virtually, and the current “red flag” singing brigade is never ever going to have enough appeal to voters to win power.
Tony Blair’s New Labour was a good start on the road to a new identity. It really got the Tories in full retreat if you recall. Unfortunately it fell into the quick sand of the Iraq war when Mr Blair got over confident and much too close to the right wing Bush administration.in the US.
However something like New Labour reborn is desperately needed now.
Whatever the problem is with Labour it must put at the top of its agenda a redoubling of the fight for complete meritocracy and equal opportunity for all. Fairness and justice will flow from that. And the votes will flood in again.
I am sure that you are correct that the structure of society has changed and the existence of a clearly defined working class is somewhat eroded. Furthermore, recent elections have shown that Labour can no longer assume it will automatically receive the votes of the working class.
However, it remains the case that there are deep inequalities in our society. The Tory view is along the lines that a rising tide floats all the boats and if the very wealthy get wealthier there will be a trickle down through all the strata of society and even those in the bottom layer will benefit but the evidence in support of this seems view is unconvincing to say the least. There remain far too many people living in poverty in this country, dependent on food banks, living in low-quality (but often expensive) housing and with little prospect of improving their situation. There is therefore a serious job for Labour to do and it is greatly to be hoped that it can find the way to become an effective electoral force again.
Jonathan – I agree that there are deep inequalities and that is why I would put the emphasis on fairness and kindness rather than fighting oppression. I think the ‘rising tide’ phrase came from JFK (although he borrowed and publicised it rather than invented it) and I agree with you that experience shows that the boats most in need of a lift often seem to be most firmly anchored to the bottom of the sea.
Moan moan moan, that’s all you lot do! This blog is just one giant moan!! The problem is Labour isnt centre left, its left. And the world is slowly turning it’s back on this political correctness gone mad type of party where if you dont agree we will call you racist or sexist or something with ist on the end! Also if they dont agree with something or like it or think its loved by the dreaded upper classes it gets banned! I am a remainer, through and through but I voted conservative because I just cant stand the thought of being governed by a load of sad and angry people who spend their lives constantly complaining and ‘campaigning’ for what they think is wrong, and to hell to anyone else. Honestly I think what drives the left is a hatred of certain types of people and in this election that lets fight the elite angle failed them miserably.
Happy Christmas, try to enjoy it and not complain even if it’s just for one day!
S – thank you for your complaint about complaining. It is a great example of your logic and consistency. Happy Christmas.
Well said, I couldn’t of put it better myself. Great that someone else that writes on this blog thinks and works like me. Anyway what ever your views Merry Christmas.
S for Selfish.
To S for Santa and Judith below Happy Christmas to you too even if the spirit of Christmas or the Winter Solstice is somewhat different to your expressed views, I happen to think you are wrong in fact and analysis.
Mitakuye Oyasin
Wanji Wiconi
Wanji Cante
Wanji Oyate
Wanji Wowicate
Translated We are all related
One Life
One Heart
One People
One Truth
@S be gentle with the good Doctor he may be a little sensitive now he’s seen any real prospect of banning DGS trodden into the mire for at least five and probably ten or even more years.
giles – I wouldn’t be so sure about that.
Politics in England has swung firmly to the right. There’s little option for Labour right now other than to become the Nice Conservative Party. The mainstream media and all those who support and nourish it simply won’t tolerate any other version. Once all the Brexiters have died off, then regardless of the outcome of Brexit, a labour Party with a more socialist outlook might be possible.
“Once all the Brexiteers have died off…”
What a charmer you are Stuart. Luckily, I have several decades in front of me yet…
Brexit as a political position will be dead in five weeks time. Brexiters will be replaced by those who wish to remain outside the EU and rejoiners who I suspect will be fewer than current remainers because rejoining would almost certainly involve signing up to the euro, shengen etc.
@Stuart – has it? I rather doubt it. Why on earth would Johnson move to the right and leave room for the now shattered Labour party to regroup. I’d have thought he’d be far more likely to seek to sit firmly in the center ground and in some respects to the left. They have already signaled a desire to decrease some of the structural regional inequalities that bedevil the nation. I’m not sure such an intent should necessarily be considered right wing.
Thank you Mark for a very insightful piece just in time to provide some badly needed Xmas cheer.
Who Labour now elects as leader will tell us a lot about whether enough Labour supporters agree, and want to it to be a serious political party capable of winning elections again. I fear that Labour may be too far gone after the Militant/Momentum take over but I hope I’m wrong. I’d like to able to vote Labour again. I’d like better choices than I had this time, for sure.
Your right, I’ve never seen desperate unemployed men coming round singing carols, but I’ve also never heard of so many people, often working people, having to use food banks to feed their families. I don’t recall hearing the term food-bank until around 2008.
Over 5-million people employed in the gig economy with no protections against unfair dismissal, employers pension contributions, no right to holiday or sick pay, and no right to the minimum wage. Additionally many more millions employed on zero hours contracts, those at the bottom often having to travel fair distances in work only to be told they aren’t required today.
I wouldn’t like to tell these people they aren’t being exploited by their employers. Unsurprisingly I don’t see things getting any better under Johnson’s Trumpian post-Brexit Britain.
The next Labour Leader (Lisa Nandy I hope) needs to take a leaf from Tony Blair’s book about winning. You can’t help anybody unless you are in power. Even Johnson understands that.
Ken Loach’s recent film ‘Sorry We Missed You’ provides a heart-wrenching depiction of zero-hours UK. A must watch film, imo. But maybe best left until after Boxing Day.
Anyway, Happy Xmas Mark! Keep up the good work.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorry_We_Missed_You
I’m heartened to see that Mrs Merton is on the drift, she was odds-on last time I looked. Kier Starmer comes across as a thoroughly decent person, and clearly has a very astute legal mind. But he came across as being very indecisive over Brexit, a bit of a ditherer perhaps and that doesn’t inspire confidence.
I’m tempted to join the Labour Party just so I can vote for Lisa Nandy. I guess that would make me a centryist.
Mrs Merton!
I was with you up until then.
The situation for Labour (and UK) might have been considerably better if they had elected David instead of Ed a few years back.
I understand David Miliband is back in the country and he was quoted this morning on BBC News regarding the awful plight of refugees in N. Syria.
Is it too late for him (David) to come back to be Labour Leader? – Jeremy, maybe, could resign as an MP and create a safe passage via. an Islington North by-election!
The last thing Labour need a non socialist bloody Blairite tainted with all those policies we are still paying for– Iraq War, public-private finance deals that mean the NHS is paying huge sums just to hang on to hospitals!
Labour need a leader who inspires and leads but not a pale blue copy of the Tory left. We need a fight for fairness, equal opportunity, decent housing for all and protections for those stuck in low paid gig economy or zero hours contracts.
My paternal grandfather could have been one of those carol singers, for years he was kept out of work for union activity until Welwyn Garden City was being built.
Many of us are comfortably off (and retired in my case) but the country still needs the zeal, idealism and optimism that he and those like him used to get a decent pension system, the NHS and education for all via the Labour Party. Much as they pretend otherwise the Tories are the party of the haves not the have nots.
If we are all middle class now how come home ownership is declining and looks like it’s going to continue to decline?
How come there are so many homeless?
How come so many working people have to rely on foodbanks?
Judging by this article, and the comments, cultural hegemony is stronger than ever.
de – home ownership has increased a lot but is now declining and is nothing like the measure of middle class which once it was – I’m afraid we have Mrs Thatcher to thank for that. https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/data/housing/ I know a lot of middle class youngish people who stnd no chance of owning a home soon – but that isn’t going to make them working class (although it might contribute to them voting Labour).
Homeless – because we have an uncaring Conservative government which I don’t support. Are the homeless all or mostly working class? I don’t know, do you? https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jan/13/homeless-britain-personal-stories
Foodbanks – because we have an uncaring Conservative government which I don’t support. Are those using food banks all or mostly working class? I don’t know, do you? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-40431701
You’d need to clarify what you mean by working class and middle class.
To me anyone who is only a couple of missing pay cheques from financial catastrophe isn’t middle class, whatever they’ve been conditioned to think.
De – there are a whole bunch of definitions of working class that one can find on t’internet. As far as i can see, all of them would suggest that the numbers in that class are falling and have fallen a lot.
But you haven’t defined working class – you’ve just said one way that a person couldn’t be middle class. That doesn’t advance anything much does it?
I’m only arguing because I like it and because you started it (oh yes, and because you don’t really have an argument).
For present purposes, ie considering how the Labour Party should proceed, I’d suggest that the basic Marxist idea of defining class by relationship to the means of production is probably still valid.
For while class consciousness has withered (and been replaced by identity politics like nationalism etc), class conflict remains.
You might have encountered traces of it when dealing with grouse moor owners.
We certainly need an electable but principled alternative to the neo-liberal, climate-change denying, moor-burning tories. Don’t think Jeremy Corbyn realised that most of the British people are nothing like as principled and altruistic as he would like them to be.
But makevotesmatter.org.uk is what we need really!
A thoughtful blog, Mark. It is very confused – here in Bristol West our very well off street, with quite a few senior public/university sector people has mostly Labour posters, a few Green and a Conservative did put one leaflet through our door – and Thangham Debonaire Labour got back in with a slightly reduced majority – down from 30,000 to 28,000 ! There are probably a lot of people here who can afford – and believe in – a fairer society. Isn’t it a bitter irony that people who can’t, the ‘just getting by’ seem to vote for their persecutors ? perhaps on the basis they are one step up from the really struggling. Sadly, plunging into a leadership election hardly looks like reflection – especially as one can only suspect that Jeremy Corbyn has only stayed on to try and get one of his own elected – his war within the Labour party has been a total disaster and Labour’s performance in opposition has been disastrous – resulting in some really rather good policies – I was very impressed by their take on the environment – tumbling out in a sort of porridge to be blown away by the silly, simplistic ‘get Brexit done’.
It took a world war to radicalise the Labour Party sufficiently to make the great advances of the Atlee government. Since then, Labour has achieved little more than modest reforms. Even with a leader as radical as Corbyn, the LP failed to make anything really change.
Vote Labour, but meanwhile, let’s put our energy into building communities, and community activism, around issues that are meaningful to ordinary citizens and that will help us take power into our own hands. Climate action – linked to everyday issues like rabid consumerism, floods and droughts, failures in hiousing policies – should be at the centre of this. Eventually, the LP might cotton on, but don’t be distracted by arguments over which new leader will attract the least hostile media coverage (it’ll be the one who least threatens the status quo, of course).
Labour needs to understand majority of people do not want Cornyn and a promise of finding fairest of money trees that would find impossible dreams.
Find a good leader and reasonable promises and lots of us would at least consider voting Labour.
Of course I know how a blog full of LAbour commenters will view this comment.
Merry Christmas Mark
The days of class struggle are long gone now that everyone believes they are middle class. Instead Labour should focus on values (I know this was once a favourite topic of Conservatives for slightly different reasons).
Opportunity. Decency. Justice. Building an equitable and just society is needed today as much as it ever was. None of this is going to come from the Conservatives they simply don’t have the moral backbone, the political backbone or the desire to deliver it. I’m not a supporter but it seems to me that the need for a political party that serves the interest of the many and not the few is as great as it was in Dickensian times.
A prime example of the trickle down fallacy can be found here in Cambridge, which despite its vibrant economy ranks as the UK’s most unequal city. “The top 6% of earners who live in Cambridge take home 19% of the total income generated by residents, while the bottom 20% of people account for just 2% of the total.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/feb/04/cambridge-most-unequal-city-population-divide-income-disparity
@Paul – those figures on their own do not disprove the trickle down fallacy – although the real figures *might*. In actual fact if that poorest 20% are richer than the average poorest 20% the figures arguably support trickle down economics. Go to places like Hartlepool or Redcar and you might find less inequality than Cambridge but also more poverty.
I actually did a bit of research on this which bears out what I suspected. You can get a lot of data on deprivation here https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/english-indices-of-deprivation-2019
Cambridge does indeed appear to have a high range between rich and poor – but it’s most deprived area ranks at about 4,000th out of 32,000 areas – so there are about 4,000 areas (each area being about 1,500 people) that are more deprived than the poorest area of cambridge. Blackpool seems one of the worst with 9 out of the 10 most deprived such areas in England. There is also a lot more social deprivation in blackpool and that deprivation is a lot worse.
But cambridge has a LOT of very rich people.
So if Blackpool has less inequality than Cambridge who exactly does that benefit? Certainly not the poor of Blackpool.
The theory of trickle down economics states that when people become rich the poor also become richer. If anything the comparision between Cambridge and Blackpool bears it out.
Giles – if that is the standard of analysis that convinces you then it’s not surprising that you have some funny ideas.
How so Mark? It’s really not hard to see from those figures which are incredibly detailed that Blackpool has both considerably more and considerably worse deprivation than Cambridge and also that this is true for numerous other towns and cities in the UK – do you actually dispute that? Have you looked at the figures?
If you want them in more detail blackpool has
39 areas in decile 1
16 in decile 2
16 in decile 3
14 in decile 4
5 in decile 5
1 in decile 6
3 in decile 7
Cambridge has
0 in decile 1
3 in decile 2
6 in decile 3
2 in decile 4
14 in decile 5
8 in decile 6
8 in decile 7
8 in decile 8
10 in decile 9
8 in decile 10
we can see from the above that about 96% of blackpool is below the national average in terms of deprivation whereas in cambridge 37% are below average.
If we class a ‘deprived area’ as in the bottom two deciles about 4% of cambridge is deprived whereas 58% of blackpool is deprived.
My conclusion from those figures is that while cambridge may well rank as the most unequal city this is largely because it has a lot of very rich people. By any reasonable measure Cambridge is richer and has less poverty than Blackpool.
Blackpool has more equality – because it has less well off people and a lot more poor people.
Trickle down economics predicts that having very rich people makes the poorest more wealthy as well. In cambridge – there are definitely a LOT less very deprived people which is preceisely what trickle down economics predicts. While it’s not true to say this proves a trickle down effect it’s clearly not true to say it disproves it.
Rather than making a sarcy comment would you actually disagree with the above?
giles – you have taken one place (fair enough, Cambridge as mentioned by someone else here) and plucked one other place of your own choosing with which to compare it. As you say, ‘it’s not true to say this proves a trickle down effect’ – which is what I said.
I’m not trying to ‘prove’ trickle down economics I am merely stating that the original point that Cambridge of all places disproves it is clearly nonsense – would you also agree with my analysis?
As you say taking two cities is possibly not representative of overall trends we could read the actual report which states:
“Those cities that were most equal also tended to have weaker economies, for example having lower average incomes, fewer knowledge-based services jobs and less productive economies (see Figure 19). This means
that although these cities were more equal, they were poorer overall. ”
we could also compare some of the most equal ten cities with the least equal in terms of percentage of population in the bottom 2 deciles in terms of deprivation and those in the top two deciles.
It’s worth pointing out I am giving figures for deprivation which is arguably a better measure of how ‘well off’ you are than income which is what the report uses. One could have a higher income but less well off than someone with a lower income if they have a council house/better public services/lower crime rate etc
most equal (burnley is most)
==========
Swansea
Sunderland 40% – 4%
Wigan 32% – 17%
Barnsley 39% – 5%
Newport (no figure)
Wakefield 33% – 9%
Mansfield 40% -9%
Stoke 51% – 5%
Hull 54% (a stunning 45% in the bottom decile) 2% (0% in the top decile)
Burnley 51% – 1% (none in the top decile)
Least equal (cambridge is the least)
==========
Cambridge 4% (none in the bottom decile) – 26%
Oxford 12% – 25%
London (can’t find figure for whole of london)
Reading 10% – 18%
Brighton 17% – 14%
Southend 20.5% – 25%
Aldershot (can’t find a figure)
Basildon 23% – 24%
York 5% – 50%
Cardiff (no figure)
I would conclude from the above figures that not only does cambridge not “expose the fallacy” of trickle down economics – none of them does. I would also conclude that the most equal (in terms of GINI) cities tend to have greater levels of deprivation than average – and that the least equal cities tend to have lower levels of of severe deprivation.
What would you say?
giles – the original comment described Cambridge as a prime example not as proof. So I didn’t read the rest of your comment since you started with a misrepresentation.
Mark I have no where stated that the original comment stated that Cambridge ‘proved’ trickle down economics. So please do not misrepresent what I am saying. [Mark writes: rest of comment deleted and see giles’s apology on this matter]
ah yes apologies I did by mistake slightly misrepresent Paul’s statement – please accept the corrected version below –
I’m not trying to ‘prove’ trickle down economics I am merely stating that the original point that Cambridge of all places EXPOSES IT AS A FALLACY it is clearly nonsense – would you also agree with my analysis?
As you say taking two cities is possibly not representative of overall trends we could read the actual report which states:
“Those cities that were most equal also tended to have weaker economies, for example having lower average incomes, fewer knowledge-based services jobs and less productive economies (see Figure 19). This means
that although these cities were more equal, they were poorer overall. ”
we could also compare some of the most equal ten cities with the least equal in terms of percentage of population in the bottom 2 deciles in terms of deprivation and those in the top two deciles.
It’s worth pointing out I am giving figures for deprivation which is arguably a better measure of how ‘well off’ you are than income which is what the report uses. One could have a higher income but less well off than someone with a lower income if they have a council house/better public services/lower crime rate etc
most equal (burnley is most)
==========
Swansea
Sunderland 40% – 4%
Wigan 32% – 17%
Barnsley 39% – 5%
Newport (no figure)
Wakefield 33% – 9%
Mansfield 40% -9%
Stoke 51% – 5%
Hull 54% (a stunning 45% in the bottom decile) 2% (0% in the top decile)
Burnley 51% – 1% (none in the top decile)
Least equal (cambridge is the least)
==========
Cambridge 4% (none in the bottom decile) – 26%
Oxford 12% – 25%
London (can’t find figure for whole of london)
Reading 10% – 18%
Brighton 17% – 14%
Southend 20.5% – 25%
Aldershot (can’t find a figure)
Basildon 23% – 24%
York 5% – 50%
Cardiff (no figure)
I would conclude from the above figures that not only does cambridge not “expose the fallacy” of trickle down economics – none of them does. I would also conclude that the most equal (in terms of GINI) cities tend to have greater levels of deprivation than average – and that the least equal cities tend to have lower levels of of severe deprivation.
What would you say?
giles – I’d say you are straying way off subject. This blog is not a dumping ground for your thoughts. The original blog post was not about trickle down economics and although I am interested in the figures you cite this is not th place for them, thanks.
I’d also say that you too often misrepresent or perhaps simply misunderstand my views and those of others who comment here – it’s a bad habit. You then often go off on a rant – that’s another bad habit.
And I’d just point out that when no-one is taking much notice of your comments it is amazing how often some new commenter appears here to back you up. Do you have any explanation of that? There are a couple at the moment which are being asked to confirm their email addresses are genuine.
Whoever is chosen as leader, let’s hope they get the full backing of the Parliamentary Labour Party. The lack of support for Corbyn was excused by the tit-for-tat argument; he had serially voted against Blair’s government forgetting that the latter was in power with a sizeable majority. Corbyn was a mere irritant to Blair along with the anti-war marchers.
It looked all along that many Labour MPs preferred to defeat their legitimately elected leader rather than the Conservatives.
I very much appreciated your relating the memories of your ninety-year-old Mum.
We should never lose sight of the past and as some-one a decade behind her, I find myself going back over my childhood and youth, spent growing up on my parents’ tenanted mixed arable and livestock farm.
I went carol singng round our village with our local Methodist Chapel Sunday School class in the 1940s and early 50s.
Some of the money we collected on our house-to-house visits went to charities and some of it to buying our annual prizes of books.
I shall always be grateful for the dedication of our Sunday School teacher in choosing very readable books.
It was through these that my childhood interest in Natural History was stimulated by receiving several of Bramwell Evans’ Romany books which I still have and dip into.
So thank you Mark for rekindling these memories and to your mother for relating her memories to you and your wife and your successful, mathematical children.
John B
John – thank you.
Class conflict is definitely still alive – and the EU and more particularly the Eurozone is a fine example. Its institutionalised neo liberalism operates in the interests of big business and the rich north. By removing the ability to fluctuate exchange rates we’ve ended up with a situation where wealth continually flows from the increasingly impoverished south to the north. The left across Europe needs to get this and stop supporting the EU/Eurozone as currently constituted. The continual demonisation by sections of the left of the poorer half of the UK for voting to leave the EU was self defeating. Brexit is a symptom of class conflict and it wasn’t the lower working classes who were deluded into supporting their persecutors – it was the ‘middle class’ a section itself of the proletariat who were conned into supporting the status quo. And once that battle as lost the rpersecutersevanchist remain left, desperate to remain within the comforting bosom of the neo liberal EU that sealed the Labour party’s doom. The EU opposes the interests of the working class – it is in hoc to big business and big banks and has shown itself prepared to sacrifice entire nations to their interests.