…and it’s going to be Corbyn. So we had all better start getting used to the idea.
It’s going to be interesting:
- will Corbyn rise to the challenge of leadership?
- will Corbyn unite the Labour Party?
- does Labour want to be united?
- will Corbyn rattle an experienced David Cameron at PM’s Questions?
- will the losing candidates for leadership, and the Labour Party as a whole, realise that the country wants something different – and is perhaps willing to give almost anything a go provided that it is different?
- will environmental issues get higher prominence?
I think you’ve scored a perfect 6/6 no’s with those questions, and you could add a seventh by asking the all important question ‘Can a Corbyn led Labour party win a general election?’
My own view is that the great British public has had it with all that right vs left stuff and just wants good quality government. I have voted for Yvette Cooper, but only because she’s the least worst option. The party needs to buy some time in order to rediscover just what it stands for – and it’s not 1980s socialism. The bottom line is that a Tory government will never ban driven grouse shooting.
Phil – welcome! And thanks.
Can a Corbyn-led Labour win a general election? Yes if he gets the 6 points right. They are on the road to a Labour victory.
The bottom line is that we will never get a better form of upland management unless people oppose driven grouse shooting and shine a light on its unsustainability. And another bottom line is that Labour look about as clueless on this issue as the Tories look self-interested.
“we will never get a better form of upland management ” – just out of interest do you think that if we had environmental laws which banned bad management in the uplands – do you think this would lead to better management?
For example say we made bad moor burning illegal – would it lead to less?
Also would you oppose such stronger environmental legislation?
If and when responding please remember that better environmental protection in the uplands would weaken the political case for a ban on grouse shooting.
Way back when our environmental legislation was first framed, there was a major dichotomy in how it was applied.
General environmental protection was delivered through the clean act and the water pollution legislation… backed up with enforcement agencies …fines, jail etc..
Nature conservation was delivered through a mild mannered consensual approach.
The result of this dichotomy….salmon in the Thames, breathable air and farmers who respect the Environment Agency and do what they are told. And of course…. ploughed SSSI’s, extinctions and land managers who simply have little to no respect for nature conservation….
Tougher legislation can be very effective all round.
& for the Deputy? Five to choose from with some interesting track records?
Creasy, all the way.
Yes
No
No
No
No
No
Sorry
FotE wrote to all of the candidates asking about their environmental policy. Kendall and Cooper did not reply. Burnham wrote about needing to know more about the effects of tracking. Corbyn sent a detailed policy statement including wildlife conservation and the effect of pesticides on bees. He has had my vote.
Kevin – thank you. I’d missed that, but it is very encouraging.
I’m still undecided, although my indecision is between Corbyn and Andy Burnham. For me Cooper is too close to the last disastrous five years of the Labour Party. My hope with Corbyn is that even if he doesn’t last the distance (to 2020), he will re-align the Labour Party, and maybe even British politics to a degree.
The thought of one of ‘the other three’ winning and proceeding with Labour business as usual is depressing, so maybe you’ve done the right thing in helping to light the touch paper for something different.
No to all except the fifth, to which my answer would be ‘I hope so’. But surely it says something worrying about the Labour Party, probably Westminster as a whole and perhaps all of us that a reactionary (I use the word in a literal sense) such as Corbyn is about to become leader. As for the environment, I don’t see him leading his party on this because – well, see previous sentence. Perhaps he might contribute to the HH debate by suggesting that they travel in separate carriages.
I don’t have a vote in this, but if I did there are only two change candidates, and of them I think Corbyn’s vision is much closer to mine than Kendall’s.
This is going to be a rocky road but I hope it will change Labour, and for that matter Britain, for the better.
I’ve cast my vote(s) yesterday.
I think the situation in Scotland and in many other parts of Europe should have given Labour a very big flashing neon arrow to help them in the right direction if all they (truly ) want these days is “power” ( deliberate quotation marks).
But that arrow has been dismissed by most of the cardboard cutout candidates.
Corbyn will win as you say. Will he last long… maybe not. Will he fight to be PM at the next election? I doubt it. Will his leadership contest success FORCE his party to confront that neon arrow? I hope so.
The political system (our “democracy”) is broken now and our politicians (I sadly include Andy Burnham in this despite him standing on the Goodison terraces each weekend) seem oblivious to the fight of the common man and genuinely uninterested in anything else than getting back into “power”.
I don’t think it will be too long before this broken 2 party (down from 3) system in England at least (still slightly more than Scotland who are now a one party system down from 2) is in its death throes.
The inevitable result of low election turnout, a disillusioned electorate, most politicians of whatever rosette colour being pretty-well the same, party politics casting their net wider and wider (which Cooper, Burnham and Kendall wrongly insist is still the answer) is a breakup of parties.
I think we may see a breakup of the Labour party soon (within 10 years…. is that soon?) and also a breakup of the Tories.
2 Party politics has had its day.
As has “first past the post” ( the election system designed purely for two party politics).
The electorate is making that clearer and clearer.
I don’t think it’s even a case of if this happens.
It’s just a case of when .
I don’t have a vote in this I’ve not been a party member since the early eighties. If I had one it would be for Corbyn because Kendall is tory lite, Cooper is a politician with no passion and Blairite ( no true convictions), Burnham is not as radical as Corbyn.
I seem to recall Burnham won’t admit to getting anything wrong either (eg privatisation of NHS).
Will any of them undertake a substantive cull in the second House? This recent 45 extra seats really has, if it is possible, reduced my respect for the ‘farce’ we offer up as democracy ….
What’s the increased cost to the taxpayer for an 11% payrise, pro-rata expenses alongside and now another 45 on £300 a day or has that also increased with ‘Westminster inflation’ &c.?
Sadly, I fail to see a case or demonstration of need for more ‘clutter’, perhaps I missed the reasoning – wasn’t red tape etc. promised a cut? As true to their word as delivering ‘the greenest government ever’?
In the absence of a realistic Green alternative, then it’s Corbyn.
He is the only anti-austerity candidate. The only candidate who will do anything for the poor, the downtrodden and the disenfranchised of this country that most people don’t give a monkey’s about any more. The only candidate who might make those responsible for the financial catastrophe of 2008 actually pay for their greed-induced mistakes. And the only candidate with decent outlook on the environment.
He will apologise for the unforgivable debacle of Iraq, that has led to the current day apocalypse in Iraq/Syria and the rise of ISIS.
He is the only chance that we have of any remotely sustainable environmental policy and I would further suggest he is the only option for a civilised person with a conscience to vote for.
The other candidates did not vote against the authority bill, Cooper flipped her house three times and Burnham claims £17000 per year rent London rent, despite already owning a house in London. Corbyn claimed £8.00 for a printer cartridge.
Stupid media-driven comments such as those above about women-only carriages (not even suggested by Corbyn, but by women!) and the ridiculous establishment propogande currently coming at hime from all sides should not detract from the fact that his policies are not extreme or reactionary, but rather decent, sensible and compassionate. The fact that the mainstream media can mould people’s thinking into believing his policies to be extreme left is tragic.
Corbyn all the way. But if you want more of the same, then by all means keep voting for more of the same…
Anyway, who are you voting for Mark, and why?
I think the ‘who’ part of your question is answered by the picture of his filled-out voting card.
Jonathan – yes it wasn’t a difficult question to answer was it?
Jonathan
There is nothing to say the voting form is Mark’s.
I would still like to know why Mark is supporting Corbyn, especially given the difference between Corbyn and the Labour party Mark has voted for in the past. It’s great that Mark has gone for the most progressive candidate. But the reasons intrigue me.
Steve – because I think he’s the candidate most similar to my own views (although there are plenty of differences – I’m worried about his view on the EU and he seems a shade too anti-Israel for me although that really is a can of worms). He is the most radical candidate and that’s what I have been waiting impatiently for Labour to produce, so it would be odd not to vote for one now they have arrived. But also the other three don’t inspire or impress.
In racing terms, he is the slightly dark horse. It’s a bit of speculation how he would perform on a new course and a new distance. I wish I’d had 3100 on him to win a few weeks ago!
I think the most significant factor is not Jeremy Corbyn himself, but the bandwagon of support for major change, which is without precedent i.e. his supporters. The reason I personally believe that all the analysis of the media pundits, and New Labour stalwarts is mistaken, is that absolutely none of them saw this massive bandwagon of support for change coming. If anyone had tried to predict just over 3 months ago, that Jeremy Corbyn would be a front runner for the leadership of the Labour Party by a country mile, they’d have got laughed at. Although they’d have been right.
The only thing you can say for absolute certaint, is that it will massively change the public dialogue and public perception. Simply having such a huge and enthusiastic body of support, for opposing the Tory agenda, will change perception completely. The lack of significant opposition to the Tory agenda has resulted in David Cameron’s Tories looking far more moderate than they really are. In reality they are quite extreme ultra-Thatcherites.
It’s impossible to know exactly how it will pan out. Whilst it could result in an old left right polarization, I think this is unlikely. Unless you’re over about 45, this old left right thing, doesn’t mean a great deal.
A lot of Jeremy Corbyn’s supporters are going to want to discuss the environment, and this will result in a major change in dialogue about the environment. It’s impossible to make any firm predictions, simply because there are so many bifurcation points, where things could go in very different directions. This is why a lot of the mainstream analysis about how it will pan out is unhelpful. It’s not really about whether Jeremy Corbyn is electable. It’s far more about what comes out of this massive change in public perception.
You never know, Mark’s campaign to ban driven grouse shooting, may even become actuality.
Corbyn has certainly set the cat among the pigeons. Blair, not surprisingly is becoming almost pantomime in his ‘warnings’ about him. Yes, we remember your warnings Tony. Let’s face it Corbyn is not a natural leader but that is part of his appeal. Whether you agree with his views – largely I do – he represents a straight talking, direct and yes old school approach to politics that is shocking to the likes of Straw and Mandy because he sees right through their lies and web spinning and somehow ( this is where he gets my respect) ignores them.
Mark Avery knows as much about moorland management as politics. Nothing!