Pretty or not?

All that lead, all that burning – sustainable upland management?

Please sign this e-petition to ban driven grouse shooting.

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23 Replies to “Pretty or not?”

  1. The leaving of cartridges in anywhere in the field is reprehensible behaviour, and thankfully very rare. If it's not a staged picture (possibly/probably) then I would expect the shooter will be hearing more about it. As for the heather burning Mark, if you revisit in the Spring I'd say it would be 'glorious'. You don't seem to mind it at Ruabon Mark. Any reason for that, also any reason why you omitted the management practices at the area you visited and extolled so highly? You're aware they include heather burning and predator control yes?

    https://markavery.info/2017/03/14/black-red/

    https://naturalresources.wales/about-us/news-and-events/news/rare-bird-numbers-nearly-back-to-record-breaking-high-in-north-wales/?lang=en

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    1. 'The leaving of cartridges in anywhere in the field is reprehensible behaviour, and thankfully very rare'. May I suggest, Bara, when out and about in the countryside you try looking down every now and again.

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  2. Not sure what you mean or why it's even relevant Mark. My persona I use on websites, social media etc differs depending on where I'm posting. The only relevance I can see to you labouring the point is you don't have an answer as to why it would appear you condone intensive management practices on moors where grouse aren't shot (though specifically avoid highlighting it), but not where they are. I agree raptor persecution is both repulsive and any individual caught should feel the full force of the law, and I'll not disagree with any of your blog posts that highlight that. What I don't agree with is the disingenuous posts relating to the 'ills or managed moorland'.

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    1. Bara - you do sound cross. Are you used to getting your own way all the time? Do you have a feeling of entitlement?

      I'll answer you if and when I like, thank you - but stop trying to mislead people by pretending to be two people. So why don't you post the comment under your first name and then we'll take it from there.

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      1. Not cross at all Mark, and I don't see anything in my posts that would lead you to that conclusion [rest of comment deleted]

        Mark writes - Bara, at the end of today I will either delete all your Bara comments or all the ones you made under another name. You can't pretend to be two people here and I haven't allowed others to pull that trick either. You can make any polite comments you like here but not pretending to be a crowd. I don't mind aliases being used, (there are a variety of reasons (good and bad) why people might want to do that) but not multiple aliases.

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  3. http://www.ilkleygazette.co.uk/news/15606376.Corbyn___39_not_keen__39__on_grouse_shooting/?ref=mr&lp=3

    Bingley Moor Partnership - The money they "spent" on bracken control was a grant from the National Lottery or some such other funding body and I have been told it was all spent on land owned or leased by the partnership not on the Council owned part. There will still be grouse-shooting and all the damaging practices that go with it on this piece of our uplands as the Council only owns part of the northern slopes above Ilkley.
    Still if the Council doesn't renew the lease it's a start.
    Looks like Jeremy has made his views known anyway. John Grogan MP(Labour) for Ilkley has also come out against the shoot.

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  4. it's really not rare to see shot gun cartridges littering the countryside. I typically walk about 750-1000 miles a year in Northern Upland Britain. I see them most of the time, on grouse moors and around pheasant shooting country.

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  5. Mark, you know exactly who I am. So I'll post the points, and perhaps you will then answer them?

    The leaving of cartridges in anywhere in the field is reprehensible behaviour, and thankfully very rare. If it's not a staged picture (possibly/probably) then I would expect the shooter will be hearing more about it. As for the heather burning Mark, if you revisit in the Spring I'd say it would be 'glorious'. You don't seem to mind it at Ruabon Mark. Any reason for that, also any reason why you omitted the management practices at the area you visited and extolled so highly? You're aware they include heather burning and predator control yes?

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    1. Weavers - I don't know exactly who you are. How could I? What do you do for a living? Where do you live? How often do you shoot, if ever? Are you a member of the Countryside Alliance?

      From whom will the shooter be hearing more about it? That sounds interesting? Please do tell.

      This post is not about Ruabon is it? I posted about seeing Black Grouse in Wales over 6 months ago - why not make your comment there? To help you, that's either here https://markavery.info/2017/03/14/black-red/ or here https://markavery.info/2017/03/14/birding-north-wales/ I'll be happy to deal with them on a relevant post.

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      1. Mark, please stop being disingenuous, it helps no one. You were criticising "Bara" on the basis of your knowledge of where he posts from, other identities etc. On that basis you refused to answer the points in his post. I only ever post with this name, and I assume you check my IP address too, so the context of the discussion, you know me. I have repeated Bara's questions, under my open name. Therefore the excuse of "misleading people by pretending to be two people" cannot apply. If you don't want to answer, then just say so.

        As to releasing swathes of personal data on a public forum, I won't be doing that. You're an intelligent man, Mark, I'm sure you'll understand why it is ill-advised to do so.

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        1. Weavers - post your comment/question where it is relevant and it'll be answered.

          I don't care whether you tell me about yourself or not - but I am pointing out that I don't know you from Adam.

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          1. So again, you refuse to address points that don't correspond with your own views, instead trying to cloud the issue with arguments about online identity, membership of the Countryside Alliance, the organisation of your own blog, etc. For someone with your academic background, who I assume was educated to discuss, to debate, and to consider alternative points of view, that is rather disappointing.

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          2. Weavers - no I haven't refused to address any points, I've said I would if they are made on a relevant blog post not on an irrelevant one. the words I used were 'I'll be happy to deal with them on a relevant post.' which cannot be taken as a refusal by any reasonable person. I've even gone out of my way to give you the link to those posts. You seem to be a bit slow-witted today.

            You on the other hand haven't answered my perfectly relevant and reasonable question about what retribution will follow the leaving of empty shotgun cartridges in a grouse butt.

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  6. If it means you're more likely to address my points Mark, feel free to remove any posts you think I've written on here under another name. You're barking up the wrong tree but feel free. As for the relevance to this post, you specifically asked if burned heather was 'pretty'. I've raised the point that it appears heather burning (and you can add in many other aspects or moorland management) only seem to be an issue for you on moors where grouse are shot. So to take that to its logical conclusion, why do you differentiate between the two and why do you keep the fact that moorland management is responsible for the revival of the black grouse at Ruabon, not only do you omit this hugely significant piece of information, you attempt to give the reader the impression that black grouse miraculously reappear when moorland management ceases. That's highly disingenuous and a slap in the face to all of the individuals, organisations and landowners, whose hard work has helped to reverse the fortunes of the black grouse at Ruabon. The questions are relevant to any blog you put up in attempt to betray moorland management as wholly negative, and will remain so until you answer the points.

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  7. Quite simple. If they were meant to be collected by the gun or his loader, they will probably be fined by the shoot and/or not invited back. If a member of staff was meant to be collecting them, they will be admonished as any employee not doing their job would be. Of course, you've still not actually been clear about the circumstances of this photo, which could have been taken immediately following a drive.

    Mark, I can only assume you are being rude in an attempt to rile me, with your "slow-witted" comment and your repeated addressing of me as "Weavers". While your acolytes here will no doubt find it all very funny, it actually makes you look rather petty and immature. But if you'd rather spend your time on childish wind-ups than serious debate, that's your choice.

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    1. Mike - thank you. The photo was clearly taken after a drive.

      There seem to be lots of people commenting here at the moment called Mike, including one just called Mike.

      If you look up the meaning of the word acolyte then you will find that you are one of mine - in the sense of followers (since you are commenting here more often than most at the moment - and you are very welcome to do so). I haven't yet seen much sign of serious debate from you yet - I'll keep looking.

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      1. As they're spent cartridges, they're unlikely to be from before a gun was fired. But the point, as it seems to need to be made black and white, is that is the time since the end of the drive that is important. Minutes or hours paints a very different picture from says or weeks. Could you shed light on which it is?

        Debate is hard when you refuse to engage, and instead decide to go off on tangents, make bizarre points not actually relevant to grouse shooting. For one so sure of his case, you're remarkably reluctant to state it and debate the subject.

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