Yesterday, Wild Justice’s lawyers sent this letter to DEFRA. Paragraphs 16, 17 and 18 sum it all up pretty well. The choice is DEFRA’s – and with the choice comes the responsibility for the consequences.
Essentially, WIld Justice has got what we asked for almost a year ago – an admission of unlawfulness from Natural England over their general licences and a period of review and consideration. That period is now coming to an end, and if it hasn’t been successfully concluded then that is DEFRA’s fault and DEFRA’s problem. We can settle the issue in court if needs be.
Wild Justice’s main interest is in the licence which foolishly and wrongly authorises killing of a long list of species for the purposes of nature conservation – we will not stand idly by and allow the casual killing of wildlife, falsely in the name of conservation, to continue unchallenged. How long does it take to cross off some species from a list?
https://wildjustice.org.uk/general/letter-to-defra-on-general-licences/
Just what the doctor ordered.
Food for thought! For starters. I am not a man of big or clever words! But after reading the interesting post the other day about volunteers and how important they are and the value of them to conservation orgs it got me thinking of what i do now and having volunteered in the past myself. Of what i do as now as a shooter part time pest controller, lifetime naturalist, forager, and hands on practising conservationist as i said in the post on turtle dove petition the other day. The work and hours i put in for conservation for free alongside running my business. Had never really thought about it but I do on average 8hrs a week! There are many i know like me that do more. . . Now! I read that WJ are yet again challenging the GL at a time we are going to need it most! Let me make it clear the pest control i do is not “casual killing”! It is targeted pest control along side habitat management to protect crops livestock and wildlife when needed! And it works! The results/stats we have in Suffolk just with turtle doves plus ,wild grey partridges, owls, water voles, and many other red list species prove that! As you and others know at the moment we are working with RSPB BTO SWT and others to achieve amazing results. This along with some farms helping in pioneering trials like RBAPS etc. As also shown in the resient results of the turtle dove project released by the RSPB. But what they don’t tell you or will publicise though is that a lot of this work and great results is carried out and comes from farms that have shoots and carry out targeted pest control. Fact! Indeed i know 2 of the sat taged turtle doves very well. More importantly what the results don’t show is the successful results from out side the project but in the same area. Achieving the same and better than the monitored results but never part of the stats. This maybe a single breeding pair in a large garden to 3 pairs fledgling 6 in 18 acres (best result last year) of quiet private land. Or 4 on 350 acres. Big is not always better. And it could of been better because a lot of first nest attempts failed last year! Predators, dry Spring, poor habitat growth/leaf cover. Predation always higher in dry springs by ALL the crow family! Plus turtles can be very site specific. I know this because it is land i carry out pest control and conservation on. The down side of all i do though and why the stats showing this and other great results are not recorded is because i am not a farmer, land owner or manager. I shoot and control pests. Doesn’t tick the box’s. No funding! And results are achieved by thinking and doing stuff outside the box. Very frustrating! I and others have tried! We know many that work for the conservation orgs and a lot agree with Us! Shock horror! For me if i don’t do pest control there would be no opportunists to do conservation. A the moment i can do far more with more freedom and oppertunity to educate folk than i ever could volunteering! In fact i get people to help me. Seems far to many are trying to reinvent the wheel when it comes to conservation! Using nature/shooting as a political football. Not On! Instead listening to and working with those with the knowledge on the ground and building on it! It will be nature that looses if it continues! As one of the old staff said to me in a hide at Minsmere many years ago”some folk can’t see for looking boy”! That stayed with me! As he was talking about his colleagues at the time!Been a firm believer all my life in “don’t tell me what to do! Show me!”and that’s what i try and do!. . . .So! Getting back to volunteering working for free! what’s it worth?? Imagine if shooting and pest control were stopped! It would be goodbye to decades of great conservation work, knowledge and a total colapse/extinction of many rare, threatened species! Because there is far more conservation work carried out by many more people for free on the much larger amount of land managed for shooting than there is on the reserves or by volunteers! Fact! Orgs know it but will not admit to it! What value can you put on it? You can’t!!! Is it worth it! Hell yes! I would say stop undermining us and work with us! Before it is to late and all trust lost!
I say leave the GL alone and as is! All parties are more aware now, can work with and comply with it! Last thing we all need it more red tape! We all need more common sense and stop fighting!
Steve – you want to stop the fighting by Wild Justice giving in! That isn’t going to happen. It is far more likely that DEFRA will stop the fighting by giving way to Wild Justice’s legal and scientific arguments. You ought to drop them a line.
The timing is set by DEFRA – if they haven’t got their act together blame them (and the Tory governments who have slashed their budgets if you like) not Wild Justice. As Wild Justice has said, if DEFRA can’t produce good lawful licences then it had better not produce bad unlawful ones. We’ve said that all along. Let’s see what DEFRA comes up with.
Maybe you ought to have a word with the shooting community – they seem to be pulling DEFRA’s strings a lot. DEFRA cannot roll out the current general licences for nature conservation purposes without risking bringing down all the others.
It’s not WJ giving in Mark. You have highlighted that a review was due and made a lot more aware!Is it that you want to stop all pest control? if not? I take it you want more species off the list? Which ones? As you may of sussed i am a turtle dove geek. From my garden to farm yard and field i have been helping them for 25 years when the first pair returned to my garden. i have learnt if you get it right for them you can get it right for many and it’s not that hard to do! No! It’s not the tick box random science you like, keep speaking of and others hide behind. But real hands on conservation from habitat management correct feeding and targeted pest control! Our results have proved it works. Ask the RSPB BTO. They are happy to have there “scientific” data and fit sat tags of the back of OUR hard work practical knowledge fieldcraft and success! Yet they will not support us! So! Why are WJ and RSPB trying to undermine what i and others do? That’s why folk are angry and frustrated! It’s targeted pest control at the right time! None of those species on the current list will ever be endangered. With the thinking that desease is affecting turtle dove numbers i would still like to control collard doves to only where numbers are high. See a lot of tricho in them. They bullies messy feeders, contaminate feed and water.
GL continued . . .
You mention we are casual killers Mark? Is that from scientific research? Have you any stats on that? I haven’t witnessed any of it. And anyone behaving like that wouldn’t last long my way.
Yes i /we have spoke to DEFRA and our orgs. Given them loads of info and facts. You say blame DEFRA and the Gov but it’s you that’s bringing another challange at a really bad time.
The current GL is workable and makes sense if everyone complies with it. Why do WJ want to complicate things more?
Care to explain/expand on why they can’t reissue the current GL?
Steve – you haven’t answered my question but I’ll answer yours – because they are unlawful.
Steve – what makes you think I like ‘tick box random science’? And what is that anyway? So far, you’ve lost me there by telling me what I like when I don’t have a clue what you are on about.
You always say it all about the science Mark, and it tops any field craft and observed knowledge by practitioners shooters like me the people on the ground. Dismissing it! By tick box i mean what i have observed from some RSPB/BTO scientists field workers and ringers on the projects i do pest control and conservation work on that they are monitoring. Literally collecting clip board data and ticking boxes. Often in a hurry and missing the bigger picture! Don’t want to know what we have seen, could show them or help them with. often not the same one doing it. Even had one ask what farm they were on because they had just followed there sat nav. I have been surprised at the lack of practical knowledge of some of the paid staff. (Others are great and we do share info). Bad advise in the placing/planting of wild bird seed covers on one site being one example. To exposed and to much disturbance. therefore no birds! Shame!
WJ say they don’t want shooting banned? It’s not looking like that Mark! you are not willing to work with us so is it your agenda and long term plan to eventually get all shooting banned? That’s what most think! Sadly a lot of trust been lost!
I may be blunt and not agree with you Mark but i learn a lot from your blog!
Wasn’t stalking you or anything but i think i saw you the other week at Minsmere? By the sluice? Minsmere, Dunwich and that stretch of coast very dear to me. Only bettered by Covehithe. I hope they save the wood!
Steve – then you misrepresent my views.
Odd thing to say Mark!? I don’t represent any of your views do i? Apart from us both having a love of the natural world!
But you and Chris in your attacks on us have both said it’s all about the science!! As you were keen to point out to Charlie Jacoby who represented us at the bird fair! Both of you have dismissed people that live and work the country and there wealth of knowledge. Calling us all sorts of names and you are still referring to us as casual killers! That’s Not happening in the countryside i live in! I am just saying some times the science is flawed! Conservation is not all about graphs pie charts and figures on tables! Neither is good pest control! It’s knowing and being in the field on the ground you know. A lot of continued observation and being able to act some times by instinct quickly and in the moment where control is needed. To me good conservation and pest control is thinking outside the box without agenda. Above all observation is is key to prevention, action and result! It’s that simple!
Just the turtle dove project is an example. The recent figures the RSBP released show they done a total of 22 site visits last year. I think they recorded 10 breed pairs on the projects on sites i cover (can’t find there record of young fledged). I am on the ground in my area covered by the project 52 weeks a year. That’s just me! There are many like me! Doing a lot more to! I counted 17 breeding pairs that fledged 18 young. And that was with many of the first attempts failing. On one project site The RSBP recorder told the farmer that they weren’t worried about the turtle doves as there was so many! Really! They recorded 5 breeding pairs, where in fact only 3 of those were nesting on that site. Other 2 pairs feeding there but nested of site near by. Hardly good science or recording!? I and others knew this but no body listen.
Same with sat tag fitting. 2 paid RSPB staff/ringers all morning to try and catch a turtle dove. Wrong trap. Wrong feed. Wrong place! Pest controller/conservationist/keeper. Simple rabbit trap. Right place, right food. 30 mins job done. No charge! And the stats will not show it’s on game shoots! Is that good science?
With all the cuts you talk of and blame it on from DEFRA down to RSPB surely it’s now time we should all be sharing knowledge and skills to move forward?
We Have no agenda!
WJ’s agenda seems to of made it less about wildlife and conservation, but more about politics. Us and them(tory toffs)? Land reform, and ownership!
The current GL’s work! I say again! To you and DEFRA leave them as they are. Everyone is more aware and tuned in now! Lets move on and they can be reviewed and tweaked if need be. Anymore meddling/obstruction will be at more cost to farmers and wildlife!
But! I will ask you again Mark! Is it WJ’s long term goal to take down and get rid of shooting??
If it did go who do WJ think would pay for have the skills, knowledge or incentive to do any of the huge amount of free conservation work that goes with shooting!?
Certainly not going to be the struggling conservation orgs is it? And you will have lost the farmers!
Steve – you seem a bit confused about lots of things and it’s not my job to cure you of that, but how many times do I/we have to say that it is not Wild Justice’s goal to take down and get rid of shooting. I can tell you that if that were my aim i would be doing an awful lot more things, and different things, than I am.
This post is about an ongoing legal challenge under the existing wildlife laws to make DEFRA implement them correctly. We aren’t trying to change these laws – but we are trying to force the government to stick to the law, and make sure everyone else does too. Tht’s not bringing down shooting, is it?
Yes Mark, it is confusing! Like i have said. I am a practitioner! Hands on! I practice what i preach! Show by example! The evidence by results is there! Pest control works! Yet you still oppose us, labelling us as casual killers and brought your challenge! Chris has been calling us the nasty brigade on mainstream media for years! WJ are challenging/trying to stop grouse shooting, release of game birds and you are still saying there is no benefit from pest control for the protection of crops, flora and forna!? And you still say you are not trying to take down shooting? Very confusing! Because that’s how it looks to most! So are WJ saying even with the growing numbers of turtle doves and other red list species plus the many other farm land birds we have on farms shoots, with the correct habitat management, correct feeding along side targeted pest control it is still wrong? Working with, helping and the facts, data, science we have given the RSPB BTO DEFRA etc tells a very different story! Would the the main orgs really want to work with us if they thought what we are doing is wrong? Or are they telling you something different behind or backs? These Farms and shoots are winning conservation awards for there hard work! They must be doing something wright!
Or have WJ got any recent comparable evidence to back your claims and your challenge that pest control doesn’t work?
If you have that i would like to see Mark. Always willing to learn! As we have tried most things with varying success before getting great results. Including seeing numbers go down/fail on land we have lost and pest control/conservation stopped . But now many others see what we do and ask us for help and advise. That has got to be good hasn’t it? Like i have said, there’s no need to reinvent the wheel! But sometimes the tires may need changing!
steve – you either don’t understand or deliberately misrepresent Wild Justice’s views. We are not trying to end all pest control – where did you get that from? We are not trying to stop grouse shooting, we are trying to stop driven grouse shooting and we have set out our reasons for that (but not walked up grouse shooting and not Pheasant shooting, partridge shooting, wildfowling etc); we have never said that there is no benefit of using the general licences to prevent swerious damage to crops in fact we have supported its use in that regard because that is what the law allows; and we aren’t trying to stop the release of gamebirds but we are trying to make DEFRA assess the impacts of unlimited, unregulated and growng and massive releases on the ecology of protected sites as environmental law requires.