Ban driven grouse shooting 2019 Day 6

15 Replies to “Ban driven grouse shooting 2019 Day 6”

1. Ian Botham wrote an article for the Telegraph last week telling ‘London luvvies’ not to protest about the way grouse moors are managed. The analysis of the location of the people signing the anti-DGS petition indicates that a lot of people who live in the vicinity of grouse moors are the ones protesting.

   1. David – very much so. And when the DGS folk got together a petition in favour of grouse shooting then some of the strongest support for it came from places like Fulham and Chelsea…errrr…. I guess Both got confused about which side the London luvvies were on.

      1. He easily gets confused to be fair, so no surprise there

   2. What a good way to show the response from people who care. Keep up the protest.

2. Interesting that most of the constituencies at the top of the list are in or around driven grouse moors. It would seem the locals are as fed up with the loss of their birds as much as we are.

   1. Bill – it certainly looks like some of them are.

   2. Two weeks ago I was fortunate to get to the first ever Revive: Coalition for Grouse Moor Reform conference in Perth. It was excellent! About 250 in attendance and apparently about the same number wanted tickets, but there was no room. Part of the schedule for the day involved a session in which people who lived in the vicinity of grouse moors could have their say. It was shocking, but I didn’t find it that surprising after a few years now of looking at this issue and social media. Plenty of stories of people being ‘interrogated’ just for walking on the moors and surveillance if you’re on them and not involved in grouse shooting. Somebody with permission for setting up camera traps to identify wildcats being treated harshly by gamekeepers – people with guns – who actually boxed in his car with their vehicles so he couldn’t get away. When the factor was contacted and said the researcher had permission to be there all of a sudden the keepers tried to be his best mates. Stories about slashed tires and general intimidation and harassment galore – part and parcel of living near grouse moor.

      Despite the Pace Brothers ‘Untold Story of…’ videos it seems many gamekeepers aren’t very cuddly to put it mildly. Clearly an awful lot of people on or near grouse moors aren’t happy. In Scotland there’s been a bit of a push recently for gamekeepers to play the victim re getting harassment, threats, insults at the hands of those extremist anti’s. I have to wonder is this trying to preempt local people having their story told publicly? If what we heard starts getting into mainstream media it will be very bad news for the estates – the intimidation seems to be wearing off and I think Revive is having a lot to do with that. At one stage a show of hands was asked for those who live with grouse moors. A lot went up. Later on the excellent organizer Max told me he thought about two fifths to a half of all delegates were local to grouse moors. Quite a stunning number. This is really not good for pro DGS folk and I can only see it get worse for them not better.

3. 66866 quite a nice number, Mark! Might soon be in palindromic country.

4. Assuming the Westminster debate happens, then what?

   From my understanding of the past record of such debates, MPs get the chance to air their views for 30 minutes or so, then the curtain come down.

   The following day, there is some media coverage after which the world moves on to other concerns.

   Will a grouse moor debate be an end in itself or will it be a springboard for a further initiative?

   If so, what will be that initiative?

   1. James – let’s get to 100,000 and well beyond first, if that’s OK? And we are unlikely to divulge our strategy to allcomers months ahead (if that’s all right?).

      1. 250k. A quarter of a million. Just sounds a nice figure. A figure that you ignore at your peril.

         1. Perfectly achievable I’m sure! Only the end of the first week and already more than two thirds of the way to the critical 100,000 signatures, another 25 weeks to go. Today two Scottish tabloid papers gave space on their front cover to the story of gamekeeper Alan Wilson who has been convicted for extremely serious wildlife crime – killing of badgers, buzzards, goshawks and an otter, use of illegal snares and possession of carbofuran. How long before a national paper can be persuaded to back the petition? If during the next six months the story that local communities are being treated very badly by estates, and that those claiming DGS is vital for rural jobs aren’t prepared to support calls for an independent study to back up their claims (ergo they know grouse moors are crap for rural jobs, but have been lying) that could significantly widen and deepen public antipathy towards grouse moors. I think we are going to see some very pleasant surprises regarding who and what starts supporting the petition in the next few months. This is a fantastic start and so much further still to go, the petition has been a brilliant success so very well done to Wild Justice!

5. My 12 year old granddaughter feels strongly about the issue of raptor persecution and wanted to sign the petition but I suspected that there would be a lower age threshold. When I checked the information given on the petition website I could find no such requirement so I queried the point with HOC Petitions Service. I had a very prompt reply telling me that there was no lower age limit but:-
   “…it’s important that anyone signing a petition knows what they’re signing, and why.”
   They went on to tell me that everyone signing needed a valid email address, so that they could receive the confirmatory email with the link to click on, and helpfully pointed out that up to two people could sign on the same email address so long as they “live at the same postcode.”
   My granddaughter will sign this petition as she knows very well what and why she would be signing.

   1. Indeed, 12 year olds can and do have very strong feelings if properly informed. I think I wrote to the Scottish secretary about Barnacle Goose shooting when I was about that age, and got a reply. I had definitely read about it in a wide variety of conservation and wildlife literature and no-one said I shouldn’t or couldn’t comment…this was way before Devolution, so it would have been someone in westminster way back in the Thatcher years……
      Its the under-30s who will have more pieces to pick up from the mess we are currently making, so the more their voices are heard the better.

6. “Great stuff” Mark. I just get that feeling that the tide is turning, albeit slowly, against Driven Grouse Shooting and the thoroughly rotten and cruel practices of many of the grouse moor owners. I think the days of the vested interests of so many Tories when it comes to grouse moors are really beginning to be numbered.
   Thanks for your very excellent talk about Wild Justice at the Bird Fair yesterday . It is great work that you , Ruth , Chris and your legal team are doing. It is so pleasing too that you have taken on the issue of 50 or 60 million young pheasants/ game birds being released every year. As mentioned before, in Holland the release of game birds for shooting is prohibited. Perhaps sooner or later, hopefully sooner the U.K. will follow suit and be dragged out of its Victorian and antediluvian attitudes. However this reform won’t come from the Tories.

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