Some more information here. List of speakers increasing all the time.
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20 Replies to “Hen Harrier Day 2019”
Looks like an event aimed at brainwashing people , why on earth would LACS join a conservation event. I wouldn’t let my kids near that, LACS are extremists in my opinion. Will there be a member of a pro-fieldsports organisation there? Of course not.
Is there a pro fieldsports organisation that’s calling for an end to raptor persecution by the licencing of shooting estates, greater powers to more organisations to investigate suspected wildlife crime and stiffer sentences and repercussions for the estates and their employees convicted of it? If you know one please inform the organisers I’m sure they’d be delighted to have them there as would I.
I’m sure the “moderates” who abuse wild animals for entertainment could come up with some great speakers…
How about a Q&A session on which poisons/traps are best?
Or, we could have a presentation on how to send death threats to those who oppose wildlife crime?
And to finish, a talk about getting away with feeding live fox cubs to dogs? The kids would love that.
Or, why not just keep it simple, with advice on posting stupid comments on environmental blogs?
Perhaps if there was such a pro field sports organisation that practised sustainable, walked up shooting on moorland that hasn’t been burnt and drained to within an inch of its life, as well as having all its wildlife eradicated, they would probably be welcome!
As for LACS being extremists, I really don’t know enough about them to comment.
Mark why has the Severn Trent logo been removed from the new leaflet
Geoff – because although they sent us the logo, and they are very keen on the event, and have been very welcoming and helpful, they thought it made it look like it was their event rather than Wild Justice’s event. So I think they changed their mind on logo use. I can’t swear to that being 100% the story because that element hasn’t been what I’ve been dealing with, but that’s the gist.
My point proven, thanks. You are all extremists. Let’s talk about all the masked saboteurs, planting of tracking devices on peoples vehicles, death threats…..
You have a rather curious notion of what it takes to prove a point in an argument. Reading through the comments above I can’t for the life of me see what anyone has said that makes you feel your point is proven.
I am not a member of LACS and don’t necessarily agree with everything they say or do but I don’t believe that as an organisation there is any evidence to support your allegation that they are responsible for death threats and such. There may be some individual people campaigning for animal rights who have made death threats and engaged in otherwise violent behaviour and that is reprehensible and I would condemn it unreservedly but do you have evidence that these people were acting in the name of and with the approval of LACS? I think not…
On the other hand there are people on the hunting and shooting side of the fence who engage in ugly and violent behaviour (over and above the abhorrent slaughtering of protected birds of prey and illegal hunting with dogs etc). How many death threats do you think Chris Packham has received? Do you condemn that? Do you make any distinction between the thugs who make these threats (and hang dead birds from his gates) and organisations such as BASC, GWCT, MA etc who represent the views of the shooting ‘fraternity’? Would you allow your children to attend events run by or involving these organisations?
I think you need to think through your position a bit more carefully.
Yes i do make a distinction between thugs and criminals and those persons who are law abiding but the thing that strikes me is this event, uses the criminal actions of a few rogue land managers (who persecute Raptors) to paint a story that all persons involved in DGS are criminals or are doing something evil. That is what this event is aimed at doing, and kids are impressionable, they wont understand that these illegal killings are the actions of a few who are condemned by the rest of the shooting fraternity, they will just think its is the actions of all….sadly I think this is what organisations like LACS want people to believe.
And finally yes I would let my kids attend events by BASC because they portray the true picture of the shooting fraternity , not the evil people LACS would portray them as.
On the death threat issue, C. PACKHAM got some death threats and with his TV contacts got the chance to tell the world about them. Shooting, fishing, hunting, even flipping meat eating people get numerous death threats daily and no one hears about it because they dont have Piers Morgan’s mobile number!
S – the word prejudice comes from pre judging people. There can’t be a much clearer example of prejudging than your comment.
There have been something like 20 Hen Harrier Day events since 2014 – I doubt you’ve been to one and if you had then you would be unable to substantiate your view here.
You should come and listen to senior police officers, lawyers and scientists.
“…they wont understand that these illegal killings are the actions of a few who are condemned by the rest of the shooting fraternity”.
The shooting fraternity has been publicly condemning illegal killings of birds of prey for years during which time the Hen Harrier has been more or less wiped out from the north of England and massively reduced in numbers in Scotland. Analyses of disappearances of satellite-tagged harriers and eagles demonstrate emphatically that flying over grouse moors is a massively risky thing for these birds to do as there is a very high chance that they will die. There are either more people killing birds of prey illegally than you think or the few are extremely prolific in their offending. Either way, driven grouse shooting is extremely harmful to hen harriers.
Mark – will there be any campaigns at the event for the banning of DGS? For example people asking you to sign petitions or donate etc?
S – I don’t know. Were you planning one?
Mark – certainly not but if there were any there it would put me off attending hence the question.
What about petitions to make it harder for ‘rogue’ estates to get away with killing birds of prey? Or one for a full, independent study of grouse moors to see if they create or drive away rural jobs since they receive public money? FYI you don’t have to sign a petition at an event or anywhere else off you don’t want to. Creating petitions, signing and promoting them or setting up counter ones if wish is part of the democratic process. Why does that offend you so?
Les – The event would be allowing persons to promote the banning of DGS , I’m not talking about any of the other things you mentioned. If those types of campaigners are there then it is basically the underlying intention when setting up such an event to try an encourage people to ban DGS. Show them all the bad things which do not represent the law abiding majority and then all that fresh in their minds ask them to support banning it. Brainwashing. That is why it bothers me so. I dislike events or campaigns painted with a pretty face which have a sinister hidden agenda…..just like a recent WJ campaign…which luckily has failed for now.
S – have you been to any of the many Hen Harrier Day events over the last five years?
Mark- no I haven’t , this is the first time I have seen one advertised truth be told. I only started frequenting these blogs etc since the the tempory General Licence revocation, which is probably why I wasn’t aware of such events.
S – well they aren’t quite the seething cauldrons of anarchism that you seem to imagine.
There is nothing hidden about the agenda of Hen Harrier day. The poster’s headline says “Discover the ugly truth about the disappearance of hen harriers”. It is absolutely clear about what it is about and no halfway intelligent person would possibly be confused about the fact that they were being invited to an event that is part of a campaign to address the crime-driven plight of the hen harrier rather than say a family fun-day or a village fete.
Had you followed this blog for longer than you apparently have you would know that there is indeed a campaign to ban driven grouse shooting. There is nothing secret or hidden about this and I would be very surprised if anyone thinking of attending the event is unaware of the fact (it is after all primarily advertised to conservationists and conservation groups on fora such as Mark’s blog). Probably a substantial majority of people attending the event will already be in favour of banning DGS although some may prefer alternative approaches such as the introduction of licencing and or the introduction of vicarious liability.
Of course, if you are opposed to banning of DGS then it is fair to say the event is not for you but you would be wrong to make allegations of brain-washing. Many, many people are in favour of banning DGS, having weighed up the facts for themselves. These are by no means all against all forms of shooting and many would be happy to allow ‘walked up’ grouse shooting to continue. The reason for this is that, in spite of your protestations that raptor killing is the work of a few bad apples, driven grouse moors are managed in a highly intensive manner in order to ensure sufficient birds for the guns to shoot come August. This intensive management is highly inimical to hen harriers and other birds of prey and there is a wealth of evidence to show that hen harriers and eagles are not safe on grouse moors anywhere. Your ‘few’ bad gamekeepers certainly get about!
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